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CK2 - Dev Diary #120 - Tech and Combat changes

Hello! In the next patch we will be doing some small adjustments to Technologies and Terrain Combat Modifiers, and today we will talk a bit about those changes. The main objectives were to make deciding what military technologies to invest in a bit more interesting and rebalance the value of terrain with regards to the possible (large) modifiers given by tactics. Before we start, there is the caveat that numbers are not yet final, there might be some adjustments needed after we receive testing feedback.


Technologies


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This is how the Technologies window looks now. City and Temple infrastructure were joined together, while their tax bonus revenue was slightly lowered. Shipbuilding is now an Economy Tech. The Military technologies were changed so now Infantry and Cavalry tech increase morale (up to 40%) and defense (up to 60%) of Infantry and Cavalry units, respectively. On the other hand, Skirmish and Melee technologies affect the Attack value of troops (up to 60%) and decrease the probability of using generic bad tactics. Finally, Military Organization now gives only a low overall bonus to morale (up to 20%) but keeps its importance for Retinue Size, and we added now also Reorganization speed (morale recovery) of armies.


Light Infantry and Elephants, being neither skirmish nor melee specialized troops, do not increase Attack damage. Light infantry base values were bumped a bit to compensate for this. This means that Light Infantry and Elephants will have a bigger impact with low technology, losing a bit of their edge as technology advances. But Light Infantry will also be more relevant in difficult terrain (see below).


Historical Setup of Tech Levels


We also changed the initial values of technologies a little, to be more historically asymmetrical. In the picture above you can see the Constantinople values at game start. As an advanced society, Constantinople can build more advanced buildings, and has increased Military Organization and Legalism. But the Frankish lands will have some superiority in Melee and Cavalry. The Frank/Norman Knights were a fearsome sight on the Battlefield.


Combat Modifiers


The combat tactics interplay can give a bonus of up to 900% to some troop types while making others non-attackers. To make terrain, especially difficult terrain like Mountains, more relevant for a battle, the defender bonus was increased for most infantry types, especially for light infantry (see the picture below).

Narrow Flank is a feature of a battle where the number of enemy troops that can attack is limited by the number of troops on the flank the gets the bonus. We changed Narrow Flank to both become more probable in difficult terrain and be modified in a more consistent way if you have a leader with the Battlefield Terrain Master trait. The effect of Narrow Flank was also extended to the skirmish phase, to have a larger impact in a battle.


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We hope that these changes will give you players more control over the battle conditions and thus increase the influence your decisions have over the battle outcome. Together with the tech rebalance, we hope these changes will improve the CK2 experience for both new and experienced players.


Finally, as stated before, these numbers are not final, and if you feel strongly about something, let us know.
 
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The best thing you can do to improve the combat screen is add color to the tactics selection like that one mod does. So you know when your army and flank has chosen a good tactic and is benefitting from it. And also integrate that military info mod.
Any chance you could point me to those mods?
 
Any chance in changing tributary state to being earlier level of majesty? i always felt it was awkward not being able to be able to use it earlier, especially since in the charlemagne start a few kingdoms have it.
 
Given that this is likely to break saves (again), is there any chance the bugfixing portion of the next patch can be split out into a separate patch? Playing CK2 from 769 means that games can literally take over a year IRL to complete. It's kind of frustrating to see bugfixes that sort out issues in a current game (e.g. fixing the retinue bonus to the Royal Palace wonder, or fixing the Introduce Heir to the Realm decision) be unavailable to a current game.
 
What is the argument - if not solely for unit balance - for giving Light Infantry a more superior terrain defense over the other infantry types?

In other words, If I'm a guy with merely a shield and an axe and no armor, how would fighting from the higher ground grant me a greater advantage than would if I were doing so while clad in full plate armor?

Asking respectfully just out of curiosity
 
I was hoping for a rework of the combat mechanics , or at least some kind of changes , like being able to have more control over the army compositions or the battle tactics...Tbh , If we could get some changes regarding the combat aspect of the game , it would make the game pretty much perfect , IMO
 
MR capital needs culture buildings.
Horse Archer and Archer needs tactics.
And we need to rebalance the retinue caps of light infantry, 0.7 per Light Infantry is creepy sick.
And we need new mechanic to limit NK mode, such as very many and unlimited revolting just like minor clan revolting of nomads.
 
They should really make Retinues part of the base game already, like how EU4 recently made development mechanics free.
They should just really make Retinues go back to the size and costs they were paid for as content in the Legacy of Rome DLC, not the complete gutting of them we have now from the Old Gods DLC they super nerfed them in.
 
Any possibility we could also get a simplified terrain map mode with the next patch? Something that just colors each county based on what terrain type it counts as. I know of a mod that does this, but with the next patch increasing the impact of terrain on combat, I feel like it really needs to be in the base game.
 
I am a bit confused. If light infantry are neither melee nor skirmishes...what kind of unit are they? Is not a melee unit a unit that attacks the enemy with, I don't know, melee weapons, like axes, spears and so?
Skirmish troops aka "light_troops" are troops that trigger offensive skirmish tactics:
Horse Archers fire Swarm
Archers fire Volley
Light Cavalry fire Harass

Melee troops aka "heavy_troops" are troops that trigger offensive melee tactics:
Heavy Infantry fire Advance
Pikemen fire Stand Fast
Heavy Cavalry fire Powerful Charge

Camel Cavalry are a skirmish troop because they're a type of Light Cavalry. Despite their being lumped in with Light Infantry in this Dev Diary, War Elephants are supposed to be a type of Heavy Cavalry (though in my opinion this has been improperly implemented given what I believe to be an error in the special troops file): they fire offensive melee tactics. Light Infantry are neutral. They benefit from defensive tactics in both skirmish and melee. They can be mixed with other troops in order to dilute the numbers of other troops without also firing tactics that might disadvantage those other troops. But there are some unfortunate exceptions to my characterization: mysteriously, the Volley Harass tactic depends on Light Infantry (though it hasn't always), and sometimes in the combat tactics file the Light Infantry percentage is checked against light_troops, toward which Light Infantry does not count.
 
I’m happy that you guys finally do something about the quite basic tech part. But to be honest, I’m a little underwhelmed by your approach.

When I read the announcement, I figured you would build on the work of some excellent modders like @flogi
whose building and tech mod is essential in my mind.

If you’re taking suggestions, please look at that mod and ask flogi if you can copy it.
 
Any chance the combat tactics Eligibility will get a second look? I'm still utterly baffled by stuff like Shieldwall requiring 1% archers. Like, is it out of some kind of balance concern or just a trap for new players who think a 100% HI retinue sounds cool?
 
I don't mind these changes either way. I like CK2's tech system. I like that it's slow and passive and that tech is more advanced in the capital and doesn't spread was well into the more rural parts of the kingdom.
I don't think these changes affect anything too much. A bit of fresh flavour that we'll adapt to.