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CK2 Dev Diary #41: Secret Religious Cults

Hi folks!

This week is a big deal for me and for everyone else who has worked on Crusader Kings II over the years, because the game is just about to turn five years old! It was released on Valentine’s Day, February 14th, 2012. (So, if you’re running low on ideas for a gift to that special someone tomorrow, what could be more romantic than a copy of Crusader Kings II? Just saying.)

Five years on, we are still cranking out expansions and updates, all thanks to you folks! I have to say, the lifespan of this game has been pretty amazing compared to all the previous games I’ve worked on. I loved them all, of course - those games we no longer actively support - from Europa Universalis to Victoria II, but it’s been fantastic to be allowed to keep building on a game for so long, unlocking so much of its potential. CK2 is also special to me because I owned the vision and have done so much work on it personally. Stay tuned for a special anniversary dev diary tomorrow, where I will talk about the history and development of the game at length.

Of more immediate interest, we have essentially finished work on the upcoming expansion, Monks and Mystics, and it’s shaped up very well! You might already know, or suspect, that most of the new Societies will be part of the paid expansion, but there is one type of Society that actually comes with the free update; Secret Religious Cults (yes, this means that the Society framework itself is also free, so that modders can go nuts even without the expansion.) These Societies consist of followers who falsely profess faith in one religion while secretly belonging to another.

secret_cult_screen_01.jpg


Almost all of the main (non-heretic) religions have a corresponding “Secret Cult”. The membership consists of characters who fake belief in another religion in order to avoid persecution. Rulers can join any of these cults if the religion exists within diplomatic distance, and at the highest rank, the ruler can finally overtly embrace the religion and convert. Meanwhile, you get missions and powers to induce Sympathy for your real religion in other characters in the realm as well as the population in the counties. With careful groundwork, you can stage an extremely powerful religious revolt; as long as your subversive activities go unnoticed by your liege…

secret_cult_screen_02.jpg


secret_cult_screen_03.jpg


Next week we’ll start going over the patch notes, and don’t miss our anniversary stream later today or the special dev diary tomorrow!
 
Almost all of the main (non-heretic) religions have a corresponding “Secret Cult”. The membership consists of characters who fake belief in another religion in order to avoid persecution. Rulers can join any of these cults if the religion exists within diplomatic distance, and at the highest rank, the ruler can finally overtly embrace the religion and convert. Meanwhile, you get missions and powers to induce Sympathy for your real religion in other characters in the realm as well as the population in the counties. With careful groundwork, you can stage an extremely powerful religious revolt; as long as your subversive activities go unnoticed by your liege…

This seems like a great idea for actual heresies, at the very least the secret believer part.
 
"the game is just about to turn five years old! It was released on Valentine’s Day, February 14th, 2012"

Congratulations are in (holy)order!

Next week we’ll start going over the patch notes, and don’t miss our anniversary stream later today or the special dev diary tomorrow!

Exellent. Nice to see the alpha build :).
 
"Rulers can join any of these cults if the religion exists within diplomatic distance"

Jews should be always avaible as long they are allowed in the realm, because is rare to see them landed...
 
I hope they could change the Rise of Shia event to trigger for the most powerful secret Shia from now on (maybe with a bonus if you are openly Sunni, and for having traits such as Mirza and Sayyid). Would be great to be able to see preexisting characters become the Shia rebellion, and allow players to aspire to become Shia Caliph. Would also be cool to have a reaction event where other secret shiites can choose to join or support the rebellion, coming out of the closet in the process.

Personally can't wait to play as the Ashina clan, secretly returning to the worship of the old gods, overturning the Bulanids and reforming Tengriism with Judaic inspiration.

Or to play as the Visigothic Sunni Qutids while secretly retaining the old Christian faith. Looking forward to a few Manchurian Candidate runs.

Achievement idea: The Manichaean Candidate.
As a member of the secret followers of Mani, go from vassal to top liege within a kingdom or empire.
 
Will it be possible to be a member of a secret cult and another society? Because I think it would be really cool to be secretly Shia and a member of the Assassins.
 
This seems like a great idea for actual heresies, at the very least the secret believer part.

Yeah, I actually think that it's more viable/historical for heresies than for completely separate religions. There are plenty of examples of English rulers/dukes having secret Catholic chapels built in to their castles (and in England Catholic was seen as a heresy to Anglican), but there probably weren't French dukes who were secretly Muslim while pretending to be Catholic.

Or maybe I just want more options to become Cathar in the game...
 
Yeah, I actually think that it's more viable/historical for heresies than for completely separate religions. There are plenty of examples of English rulers/dukes having secret Catholic chapels built in to their castles (and in England Catholic was seen as a heresy to Anglican), but there probably weren't French dukes who were secretly Muslim while pretending to be Catholic.

Or maybe I just want more options to become Cathar in the game...
There were a lot of pretend Catholics in Spain though.
 
Yeah, I actually think that it's more viable/historical for heresies than for completely separate religions. There are plenty of examples of English rulers/dukes having secret Catholic chapels built in to their castles (and in England Catholic was seen as a heresy to Anglican), but there probably weren't French dukes who were secretly Muslim while pretending to be Catholic.

Or maybe I just want more options to become Cathar in the game...
Secret Shi'a were a thing among the Sunni, secret Pagans probably (I mean, just because one guy high in the tribal hierarchy says he accepts Jesus Christ as his Saviour for political reasons doesn't mean the whole tribe agrees) among Catholics and Orthodox, and when the Iberian Peninsula was reconquered it was quite popular to accuse people there to be secretly Muslims or Jews. so yeah, hoping this will lead to more "oh, the conquered realm seems not to be as devout as we thought", not "lol, there are random Jains popping up in Munich!" ;)
 
I love this idea however I am worried about the AI's ability to use it correctly. Were not going to have a situation where in the middle of Catholic HRE that every other ruler has secretly embraced Sunni, Tengri, Norse, Romuva, etc are we?

I feel the AI needs certain restrictions to prevent mass converting across the whole map.

Like okay for example in Andalusia the Ummayads capture all of Asturasis. Only then the former rulers convert to Sunni but secretly remain Catholic and (hopeful) to return to openly embrace it.
 
Didn't expect this! Great feature, both for historicity and gameplay. Looking forward to read more on CK2 tomorrow. :)
 
How likely is it for the AI to keep membership in these cults going through generations?

If I'm understanding correctly it seems like the requirements are lax enough that a player can easily keep every one of their successors in the cult, and almost assuredly will keep doing it throughout the generations. But can we expect to see that kind of behavior from the AI as well? I'm guessing "Sympathy for <religion>" is the most obvious trait that would affect AI decision weight. But what other factors contribute to this?
 
Secret Bears might be Secret Suomenusko.
After all these years...

There's actually a Finnish neo-pagan Suomenusko religious group that managed to become "official" recently called "The people of the bear". Playing the long game, just saying...