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Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Holy_Sites.jpg

Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Great_Holy_War.jpg

Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

CKII_ToG_DD_04_Fylkirate.jpg

There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings
 
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Well, a wife isn't the same as a concubine, so why should a husband be?

Huh, after looking into it, it seems there wasn't a big stigma on 'active homosexuality' since it showed the manliness of the active man. The 'passive' man was put on par to a slave by this action (which suits a mancubine). Guess it might be possible.
 
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a) Its 1 in the morning in Sweden. You counting on insomnia or something?
b) Of late, Doomdark hasn't come back to these threads after the initial burst (this time his last answer is p3, previous times it was p1). Goosecreature does occasionally come back later, but I don't think I've ever seen a next day response by any dev.

Put simply, try to stop repetitively asking questions simply because devs haven't responded. Leaving aside they do go home and sleep, they aren't hanging in this thread every hour anyway.

There will be opportunities later.

Calm down pal, plenty of questions have been answered in this thread.
 
a) Its 1 in the morning in Sweden. You counting on insomnia or something?
b) Of late, Doomdark hasn't come back to these threads after the initial burst (this time his last answer is p3, previous times it was p1). Goosecreature does occasionally come back later, but I don't think I've ever seen a next day response by any dev.

Put simply, try to stop repetitively asking questions simply because devs haven't responded. Leaving aside they do go home and sleep, they aren't hanging in this thread every hour anyway.

There will be opportunities later.
Fine, deleted.
 
The marriage is broken once the woman is taken concubine. That being said the game really does need a cb to release imprisoned (and maybe concubined) people.

I'm curious as to how female Pagan rulers will work. Will they be able to have male concubines?

I'm also looking to hearing more about zoroastrianism, I guessing they're going to work somewhat differently than the other Pagan Religions.
 
Well, a wife isn't the same as a concubine, so why should a husband be?
Because concubines weren't really for the fun of it. Sure that was an added benefit for most men. But concubines sort of made sure that there were male offspring. It was an awesome excuse for having more women than most others. "Hey I need them, I can't be sure of a son otherwise." It is a little hard to do that with a man. That wouldn't have stopped a so inclined ruler, but he wouldn't have made it an official thing, at most he would have let it be a known secret. But officially he would have his wife, and less likely concubines (most wouldn't need concubines in any case, so a homosexual ruler wouldn't actively try to get one most of the time). But that handsome young page on the other hand...

Seriously doubt female rulers will have male concubines. While pagan women were more powerful at that time compared to the later Christian times, it wasn't an equal society. It all falls down to the diffuse matter of who the father is. A man with several women, you can be pretty certain who the parents are, a woman with several men... it gets a little fussy. Of course everyone knew that it wasn't certain in any case, but it is officially much easier to maintain it with one man and several women.
 
I really like to play these games vanilla and not modded but at the same time ...
I REEEEEALLY would like a roman paganism option as improbable as it sounds the Idea of reconquering Italy in the name of Jupiter (and greece in the name of zeus for that matter) to me sounds like the most epic quest you can imagine on Crusader Kings.
I would teach those so called Holy roman Emperor and Byzantine emperor what it means to be emperor of Rome.... old school style.
At the colisseum my friends, we have christians to feed the lions with.
 
I agree with this. Expect quite a few players would cheerily put making wife-stealers life uncomfortable as a main goal if it happened to them. Certainly the game shouldn't treat wife-stealing with a 'yeah, whatever' or 'i'm annoyed with you, but I won't do anything about it because its just a relation decrease'.

If my PC's wife is his lover, and someone takes her, you bet I'm gonna raise an army of undead hordes mercenaries and other dudes and completely conquering the @#$% out of whoever took the wife.


Come to think of it, did the devs make mention of any way to get back a spouse that's been captured be it war or negotiations or something or at least a "please gimme wifey back" button on the character menu or something? It'd be really annoying if you can't, I can imagine a situation where a character marries, then loses his wife... marries again, then loses his wife again... marries yet again, then loses the wife again... ad infinitum until he dies, all because he can't somehow get the wife back.
 
A Punish CB would be nice. Release all prisoners and concubines, and pay me X gold (like when you lose an offensive war). Heck it is a CB that we need in other cases as well, if for nothing else than cutting a guy down to size. It wouldn't ruin the victim, but it would provide characters with a 'good' war and opportunities for feuds (if a lost Punish war leads to a Punish CB on the... ehm punisher).

But in any case, a way to get taken women back that doesn't involve paying large sums of money seems to be important. Heck a plot for the release would be nice. I just want to be able to do something about it and not feel like I am being screwed over again. And if the AI would use these options too, then all the better. Nothing feels better than past action coming back to bite you in the heel in a game. Do some crap? Get some crap later.
 
Honestly, I'd be happy to be able to only be able to claim a husband like that (naturally forcing him into a matrilineal marriage) but not a mancubine. It'd be a great way to forcibly fuse realms and get claims passed on to heirs..
 
SLAVS! I LOVE slavs! They're really nice eh guys? Always not getting eaten alive by the Kaiser and things like that. Yep, Slavs, pretty nice guys overall. So how many of you guys think that Poland's de jure territory kinda looks like a chicken leg?
You mean something like this:
3788951530_60491bb2dd.jpg

Seriously though, I would be very glad to know something about pagans other than Norse - I'm personally mainly interested in Slavs but some more details about Zoroastrians will be nice also. I understand that Paradox is deeply biased towards vikings (but let's be honest, every studio is towards its country) but they are not the only new player. Would playing for instance Slavs will be different from plyaing other pagan factions or will it be only some minor flavour details? From what I know, I'm afraid that there will be Norse and Everyone Else - I mean that interesting mechanics (rivers!) go to the Norse, and the rest get some flavour but meaningful events. I wouldn't like it to be like this. Thus, I'm waiting for some info :)
 
Seriously though, I would be very glad to know something about pagans other than Norse - I'm personally mainly interested in Slavs but some more details about Zoroastrians will be nice also. I understand that Paradox is deeply biased towards vikings (but let's be honest, every studio is towards its country) but they are not the only new player. Would playing for instance Slavs will be different from plyaing other pagan factions or will it be only some minor flavour details? From what I know, I'm afraid that there will be Norse and Everyone Else - I mean that interesting mechanics (rivers!) go to the Norse, and the rest get some flavour but meaningful events. I wouldn't like it to be like this. Thus, I'm waiting for some info :)

I remember a dev saying that there would be events and flavor for the other pagans and that some of them would have a different focus, some being more militaristic than others.
 
Norse and Tengri are offensive, Romuva, Slavic, Suomensuko and West African are defensive and Zoroastrianism is a mystery - at least that's how I heard it.
 
And that's my point. Why should anyone play defensive pagans then? Norse can use rivers and use special types of invasions and Romuva or Slavs what, "+0.25 defense while in province of your faith" or something? This kinda sucks if this is all. I mean I don't want all the pagans to behave like Norse but there should be some new mechanics to them as well. If one pagan faction can sail to Sicily and pillage the Byzantium and the other can only sit in the forest then what's the point of playing it?
 
And that's my point. Why should anyone play defensive pagans then? Norse can use rivers and use special types of invasions and Romuva or Slavs what, "+0.25 defense while in province of your faith" or something?
Why would you ever play anything else than the byzantine empire? Cool mechanics for the other pagans would be cool but I'm happy just to be able to play as them.