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Dev Diary #101 - Saints and Ancestors

Hello there! Another week, another Dev Diary!


This week we are going to take a look at the Saints, their potential Pagan counterparts, and how they will work in Holy Fury.


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After the death of a pious Christian character, there is a chance for the Pope/Patriarch/local bishop to decide to beatify them. This is how they’re shown to be truly pious Christians. There will be an announcement sent out to the dynasty as well as the ones in the realm of the character. A beatified character gets a special trait, and a chance to later on be canonized.


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If they do indeed go on to become Saints, another announcement message will be sent out to all Christians of the same faith, as well as their dynasty members. The character in question will be given a special nickname, a miracle will be associated with him/her (this is mostly for flavour) and they will be given a special bloodline. Note, any Christian with a religious head can become canonized, not only Catholics.


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The Saint will have their burial site made public, usually in their capital or another nearby province in the form of a Province Modifier. This gives a permanent benefit for whoever holds the Burial Site, as well as some new flavor events that might happen. Any church holdings in the province will be able to create a small shrine to the local Saint. As well, if any raiders were to drop by the province, they might loot and ruin the burial site for some extra gold and prestige.


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A new icon and menu have been added to the religion screen for Christians, where they can check all the Saints that have been created for their faith throughout the game. We figured it would be a handy way of keeping track of everything.


Saints & Ancestors 07.png
Saints & Ancestors 08.png



For those enjoying pilgrimages and traveling, we have added a new option and event chain to travel to a Saint’s burial site. It will find 4 relevant burial sites of Saints created throughout the game. If there isn’t 4 existing in the game yet, there will be up to 3 placeholders filling those spots. Hopefully it will be an interesting change of pace from the regular pilgrimages.


Saints & Ancestors 09.png
Saints & Ancestors 10.png


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If the Catholics are led by a particularly terrible Pope, you might even see the cases of “Impious Saints” as we call them. In the worst case scenarios, this can end up with all of Catholicism embroiled in a massive war, fighting for the piety of the Holy See. The impious Saint in question will get a Bloodline as well, but it doesn’t quite bring as many benefits as most other bloodlines do.


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Saints & Ancestors 14.png


For those of you who don’t care particularly much about Catholics, or Christians in general, we have added a new Reformation doctrine where one can take on the benefits of Saints into your pagan faith. Instead of caring about such silly things as “Piety”, “Humbleness” or other supposed positive traits, the Venerated Ancestors will be based on things your religion cares about. So if you reform your religion to be a warlike one, one is more likely to become a Venerated Ancestor if you do things that are warlike.


Saints & Ancestors 15.png



For those of you preferring to lead religions yourself, you will occasionally be given the choice of people the religion will venerate as a worthy ancestor. The dynasty of the character in question will, of course, be very appreciative of their family member being venerated as an Ancestor.

Saints & Ancestors 16.png



For the characters receiving that honor, there is a whole slew of new special bloodlines attached to them, as well some special nicknames.


Hopefully you enjoyed this little peek into the upcoming feature for CK2, and we are excited to hear your thoughts on it. Until next time!
 
Did i get it right. If you chose to be the religios head of ur religion u can on same dynasty but other persons get multiple bloodline types from religion ? Bc that would be awesome.
 
Sorry to nitpick but the "example of God" in the event text of the first image is, from the point of view of theology, completely bonkers. "Example of Christ" is the phrase the developers must have been thinking.
 
Why not saints for other Christians?
 
It does not, no.

In a similar vein of unreformed pagan things.

I've been wondering do reformed pagans that DO NOT take polygamy doctrine still have access to concubinage?

Although I could see myself taking polygamy for fun here and there.

It just strikes me that from a pure min max standpoint, if concubinage is still to be had for reformed pagans does that lessen the value of the polygamy doctrine?
 
No they shouldn't, lest the historically least attractive religious group becomes even more OP. Besides, each faith has one unique doctrine that has effects of two generic doctrines so unless you decide to betray your own faith, you basically get three Doctrines.



I presume only regular proper Saints can't be beatified with sinful traits. Impious Saints are their own thing.



This is one of those situations where a new dynasty should be formed if the descendant is a Lowborn, with a dynasty named after the Saint.
Christendom was appealing because they inherited some of the old roman civilization, the bureaucracy in the form of various more educated members of the clergy and some of the infrastructure in various places as well. That's not really something that's inherent to the religion itself necessarily.
 
Did i get it right. If you chose to be the religios head of ur religion u can on same dynasty but other persons get multiple bloodline types from religion ? Bc that would be awesome.

Can you refine that sentence?

I think it has been said that a bloodline will be created when you reform a religion. We've seen nothing to indicate that you cannot convert to another pagan faith (giving away religious titles) and attempt to reform that one to stack those bloodlines.

As for if we are able to get other religions bloodlines? I don't think we know to what extent they will be blocked by religions.

Why not saints for other Christians?

It kind of makes sense that Christians without religious heads would lack this, even outside of local bishops proclaiming local saints.
 
It kind of makes sense that Christians without religious heads would lack this, even outside of local bishops proclaiming local saints.
It's my understanding that with one exception, Christian denominations without heads will have popular beatification but not canonisation.

nd
 
@Snow Crystal I havent seen this question answered yet, but you said that you will not add "other" historical saint characters to game files, but I did not see a specification if already present characters in the game files will get the sainthood, for example saint Wenceslaus (of Premyslid dynasty from Bohemia, the same guy you sing in one carol "good king wenceslaus stooped out, on the feast of stephen...")
 
In the worst case scenarios, this can end up with all of Catholicism embroiled in a massive war, fighting for the piety of the Holy See.

*Sabaton intensifies*
 
Need more historical Saints. Also, Joan of Arc?

Joan is already in the game (also in various culturally distinct incarnations). She doesn't get married and she's celibate, so while it might be neat for her to get canonized, it would only be a flavor event and not really do anything mechanically.
 
Sorry to nitpick but the "example of God" in the event text of the first image is, from the point of view of theology, completely bonkers. "Example of Christ" is the phrase the developers must have been thinking.
You haven't seen the entire playthrough. Perhaps Matilda managed to create the world in seven days?
 
I might have missed it, but who gets the authority to canonize orthodox saints and other autocephalous equivalents? Realm patriarchs, or the exclusive privilege of the ecumenical?