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EU4 - Development Diary - 8th of May 2018

Hello and welcome!


This is the third and last development diary on what map and setup changes patch 1.26 for Europa Universalis IV will bring. This time we will turn our attention to the north and east. We will start by turning away from India for a bit and looking into what the situation was like in Burma in 1444 and then return to have a closer look at Bengal and Tibet.
Previous Diaries have shown changes to South India and North India.

We will also be taking a second look at what new formables we will be introducing with the patch in India.


Burma
BUrma.png


Today we move our attention east to the Irrawaddy valley and the region of Burma. For almost 500 years Burma was dominated by the Pagan Kingdom but by the end of the thirteenth century the Yuan dynasty destroyed Pagan through repeated invasions. In 1444 Pagan’s legacy lives in the form of an entrenched presence of Theravada Buddhism but the region is still largely divided into the various fortified Shan states that were once vassals of Pagan.
In the last 80 years the Burmese Kingdom of Ava have attempted to pick up the fallen Mantle of Pagan, building a city state using the organization and administration of the former kingdom.
Ava has in short time risen to be the overlord of the Shan Soaphas but would historically itself be replaced by the Shan states as they united in the Shan Confederation to overthrow their old master.
It was not however until the 16th century that the small kingdom of Taungu would once again unify the entire region and then turn its attention towards South East Asia and India.

The Burmese region has been given a thorough overhaul in patch 1.26 by our recent addition to the EU4 team @neondt ! To better portray the situation at the start and the rising Ava kingdom we have added a number of new Shan and Burmese states, most of which are tributaries of Ava at start as well as a general increase in the depth and province density of the region.,

To further highlight the separated nature of Burma the inland is now also its own, Burmese, Trade Node with trade incoming from Chengdu and outgoing to Bengal and the Burmese culture group has been separated from the Tibetan group.

In the government overhaul in the, as of yet unannounced DLC, there will also be a “Mandala” government reform that is available to the Burmese and countries in South East Asia.


New Playable Countries in 1444:
  • Kale - Small Shan kingdom in the Chin hills next to the Arakanese mountains. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Mao - Small Shan state right at the border of Ming China. Led by Si Renfa this small kingdom has just defended itself against its mighty neighbor and would soon find the need to do so again. While Mong Mao eventually fell to the Chinese advance they put up a much stronger resistance than one might expect.
  • Mong Nai - Small Shan Kingdom representing the states of Mong Kung and Mong Nai. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Pai - Small Shan kingdom bordering both Ava and Lan Na. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Prome - Small Burmese kingdom between Ava and Pegu. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Hsipaw - Shan Kingdom in the highlands just east of Ava. Starts as a tributary of Ava.


Bengal & Upper Burma
Bengal.png


Much like most of Northern India Bengal in 1444 is a state that has broken free from the Delhi sultanate. Unlike most of the other Sultanates however Bengal is a region that has often been both autonomous and rebellious. The Ilyas Shahi dynasty broke their ties with Delhi as 50 years before the city fell to Timur and have spent time since building a strong state kingdom around the mouth of the Ganges. In the decades preceding the start of the game the Sultanate has just gotten rid of the line of a Hindu Vizier who through his abilities had risen to control the Sultanate while also expanding on the expensive of the nearby states of Tripura and Orissa.

To the north the Ahom kingdom of Assam has come to dominate the Brahmaputra valley over the last 200 - years. The Ahom dynasty has its roots in Mong Mao and have come to displace the local rulers while undertaking a rapid “Ahomization” of the local population, introducing south east asian methods of agriculture and administration. In the far northern uplands the older kingdom of Sudiya still lingers but its ability to withstand Assamese, or indeed Burmese, invasions is by now limited.

In 1.26 Bengal and its surroundings along the Ganges and Brahmaputra have been expanded with more provinces and a higher level of detail. A Kochi culture has been added for northern Bengal and the existing Koch state is its primary tag. New incoming trade node connections have been added from Lhasa and the new Burma node.

We have also taken the opportunity to expand on the strategic nature of the Burmese geography. Adding more depth in the form of provinces as well as wastelands to better show the perils of navigating the valleys of Upper Burma. Eliminating the odd situation in previous patches where Ming would be able to immediately invade Burma and then India from the get go the new setup means that there will be a lot more land to cover for an enterprising Chinese state looking to expand its tributary network in India or Burma.

Manipur retains its position as a gate through the Arakanese mountains, and might still play the role they had historically as a surprisingly strong and able enemy of the Shan states and the Indian hill countries alike.

New Playable Country in 1444:
Mong Kawng - Shan state controlling the valleys of upper Burma, borders the Tibetan region in the north and the Sadiya kingdom in north eastern Assam to the west.

Tibet
Tibet.png


In 1444 Tibet has seen a recent powershift from the southern Phagmodrupa dynasty in the Yarlung valley to the Rinpungpa Dynasty (U-Tsang in the game). While the Phagmodrupa, formerly overlords of the Rinpungpa and “Masters of Abisheka” according to the Ming, are no longer as strong as they once were, they still retain control over their homeland and would continue to maintain an independent presence until the 17th century.

In 1.26 we have once again have help from @Fryz with research and setup for Tibet. Like in the other focus regions we have added provinces and countries where we felt it appropriate, such as Sakya, headquarter of its eponymous school, and Damxung, the strategical gateway to Lhasa on the ancient Xi'an-Lhasa road.
Perhaps most impactful however are the new wastelands that have been added to better reflect how restrictive the geography of the Tibetan plateau can be. In the far east the Hengduan range now restricts access between Tibet and China, much like the added wastelands in Burma to the south also do.
The unsettled Changthang highland has also gone from a gigantic normal province to be a wasteland cutting off direct access between eastern Tibet and Guge in the west. Together with Aqenganggyai it also ensures that central Tibet is still cut off from Tarim basin while the new province of Rutleg makes access towards India from there somewhat easier.
In the north east the new Qilian mountains also restrict movement between northern Tibet and Gansu.

New Playable Country in 1444:

Phagmodrupa - Medium Tibetan kingdom in southern Ü-Tsang.

I promised a look to what new formables patch 1.26 will give to the game. Two had already been shown in a previous diary but are included below for a complete list:


  • Delhi - The main Sultanate title in India was always Delhi. A northern Indian Sultanate will be able to become Delhi once they have secured the Imperial city itself and will then gain claims and other content related to that country.
  • Nepal - Formable for a strong Nepalese kingdom that unifies the central parts of the country. Gives better national ideas and claims on the wider region claimed by Nepal at its greatest extent.
  • Nagpur - The Kingdom of Nagpur was historically founded by the Rajas of Deogarh, but was then usurped by the Maratha Bhonsle dynasty. Nagpur would then conquer most of the tribal Indian central/eastern Tribal region. In the game any of the Central Indic countries that unifies Gondwana and the Garjats will be able to form the stronger Nagpur kingdom, potentially also inviting a Maratha dynasty.
  • Punjab - A small Punjabi country can, if it conquers the right Punjabi provinces form Punjab and gain access to their national idea set.
  • Deccan - A surviving sultanate in Deccan that reaches a enough power and influence can reform into the sultanate of Deccan. This country is loosely based on the Nizamate of the Deccan, a state set up by the Mughal Empire that ended up not only outliving it but also becoming the largest princely state in India before finally being occupied by the Republic of India. The Nizamate will gain access to claims and new national ideas.
  • Marathas - A Hindu country of Maratha culture and in possession of the right provinces can, if it fulfills the right criteria, form the Maratha tag and gain access to claims and national ideas.
  • Rajputana - Technically the land of many princes Rajputana is a formation available to a Rajput kingdom that manages to not only unite the Rajput lands but also reclaim the important cities of the great medieval Rajput kingdoms such as Ujjain, Kannauj and Anhilwad Patan.

Last but not least the requirement for the Bharat or Hindustan formations have been made considerably harder. Expect to be masters of India before being able to title yourselves as such :)
 
I think Java and Vietnam need more more more love than Siam,Laos and Malay,I know little about Java (and the totally East Indies), while I could help you in Vietnam overhaul ( and also Ming China overhaul) with the correct administrative divisions matched 1444 scanerio, if you need.

(In my opinion, the states of Myanmar are not pretty very historical but good at scanerio balance:
AVA_KINGDOM.jpg

The cartographer of this map of Ava in 1368 also lists states tributed to Ava in 1460:
Bahmo, Hsenwi,Mong mit,Yawnghwe,Mobye, Mong Nai,Keng Tong, Mong Yang, Mong Kawng, Chin States, Kale, a state north to Kale named '伽婆'.
Do you have an English map of Ming China administrative divisions by chance? Been looking for one for a while now. Not talking about province-level, but smaller (as in; usable for a China rework).
 
Thank you!

I would love to get to work on South-East Asia. Sumatra in particular is in need of love imo. We'll see what the future holds.

Did anyone else read this as “Sumatra in particular is need of lava”?
 
Will you guys complete the overhaul of the SEA map in the next free patch? I have a feeling of it.
Agreed. It could use a map overhaul and some more DHEs. It’s perfect for a balance patch focus next.
 
Question to devs , can you change content from old dlcs? For example if something in Mandate of Heaven didn't work out, can u change it or it would be ingerention in something people bought. Or more precisely can you add more estates/change existing, change age bonuses (or only add) etc. How can u infere in dutch or polish gov from res publica etc.

And my main question for this DLC, will u expand mission system ? It's the best addition of the year, but still unbalanced and very radical, some countries may love it(yes i'm talking to you Ottoman and GB), some may cry for being ill-treated

Wow. Just wow.

You have really outdone yourselves here.

I am a little upset that you’ve left most of south-east Asia, but I can understand why, especiallynwith more interactions between Burma and India.

Hope fully in a few patches down the line, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and a Vietnam can all get a little love.

But please give us Iberia next major update.
well imo this region should be one of free patch target, next bigger expansion should go to HRE+Italy(or italy as next free dlc if they don't manage it) and 2 next immersion packs should go to Spain and Poland (or some addition to entire baltic region, i would like to see teutons more like byzantium, with nice potential if they win, but not with much of victory chance)
 
Everything looks great, except I'm a little concerned at how big the Changtang wasteland is. I feel like it could be a bit smaller, especially in the north east. Are these borders final? Is this for sure what Tibet is gonna look like? i dunno, I'm just a little worried about this wasteland and unlike the others I don't reall see the purpose for one that big and that oddly shaped, it feels like th borders are a bit arbitrary.
 
I strongly hope the Bharat-level changes are to make it into a capstone level decision comparable to uniting Islam or reformimg the Roman Empire.

Yeah it would be very nice. New regional tags will largely replace Bharat / Hindustan in terms of early game goals, so the "full Indian empire" tag formation can be suitably powerful and later in the game.

I hope that changes in Burma are enough to keep Ming from regularly and quickly interfering in Indian geopolitics as almost everything else shown so far is extremely promising. I'm so happy to have my 2 favourite parts of the map (Middle East and India) be visited for some love so close together! I won't even be mad if SEA has to wait a bit longer and the Euro fanatics can have a patch or two for themselves before the obviously awaited rework :p

Also Sikh and Buddhist buffs / reworks would be nice. I'm not going to be so crazy as to suggest Jainism be added but if it happened anyway that would also be really fun.

@Trin Tragula Any chance of a trade map version of the 'overview' map so we can see the links for the new Burma node as well?
 
  • Kale - Small Shan kingdom in the Chin hills next to the Arakanese mountains. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Mao - Small Shan state right at the border of Ming China. Led by Si Renfa this small kingdom has just defended itself against its mighty neighbor and would soon find the need to do so again. While Mong Mao eventually fell to the Chinese advance they put up a much stronger resistance than one might expect.
  • Mong Nai - Small Shan Kingdom representing the states of Mong Kung and Mong Nai. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
  • Mong Pai - Small Shan kingdom bordering both Ava and Lan Na. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Prome - Small Burmese kingdom between Ava and Pegu. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
  • Hsipaw - Shan Kingdom in the highlands just east of Ava. Starts as a tributary of Ava.
What about the tributaries... will they be available only to owners of MoH as it used to be the case, or will they be a different type of subject/tributary/vassal, available even without MoH ?
 
Bharat was way too easy to form. And once you had done that, you had admin ideas over whole India...
 
Please add wastelands between Burma, Thailand and Cambodia. Current country borders look like these because there are jungle covered mountain ranges between them that made army movement impossible, limiting logistics and making the governing an empire across passes impossible.

For example between Burma and Thailand you have the Dawna Range and the Daen Lao Range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daen_Lao_Range
 
Did someone say East Asia?
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...amic-presence-in-pasai-aceh-ottomans.1020979/

Thank you!

I would love to get to work on South-East Asia. Sumatra in particular is in need of love imo. We'll see what the future holds.

I am pretty sure forums are filled with threads like mine! :p

By the way, India update looks crazy detailed, I also hope there will be lot more details about european and even ottoman intervention in era!
Formable tags are absolutely great, adds more fun to gameplay.
 
I want to make sure I'm understanding this right . . .

The ancient empire of Tibet is going to go from being completely horrible to play due to lack of development and strong neighbors ready to conquer it to the south to being . . . smaller and even more isolated; making it it a great place to play a deep game, and a terrible place to even think of trying to conquer the world from? Is that what is going to happen?

Or looking at the map . . . is it smaller, but Guge is larger, and easy access from India and the Ming are just going to make the idea of a "Theocratic empire of Tibet" even more of a distant dream? Something you shouldn't even think of playing for?
 
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New Playable Countries in 1444:
  • Kale - Small Shan kingdom in the Chin hills next to the Arakanese mountains. Starts as a Tributary of Ava.
Kale is green, B9 out of 10.

For an achievement, own Brussels as Kale: My Cabbages! :D


Thank you!

I would love to get to work on South-East Asia. Sumatra in particular is in need of love imo. We'll see what the future holds.

In the government overhaul in the, as of yet unannounced DLC, there will also be a “Mandala” government reform that is available to the Burmese and countries in South East Asia.

I hope the East Indies gets a little sprucing up soon, especially since some of the tags that exist are simply missing at the start, but that new government form sounds great.
 
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New tags are useless when they dont offer unique ideas and/or missions. Lets hope we get some nice and interesting or useful NIs aswell for all those new tags, but that should be a given, Paradox did a pretty good job in that regard recently.
 
Can we get their National Ideas?
 
Hello EU4 dev team,
It is nice that you guys have made some map changes in SEA especially Burma.
Historically speaking, MIng and its next successor Qing had attempted multiple invasions to the heart of Burmese land. But all of them have been defeated mainly due to the terrain bonus, attrition and the Burmese defensive army strength.
One thing to remember is the Burmese lands are not stable. Some Shan minor provinces bordering both China and the Burmese major power bloc have to send tributes to both Ming and the Burmese major. Historically speaking, some Chinese Burman Wars began with minor shan state not paying tributes to the Burmese major faction resulting invasion and counter invasion ultimately bringing Ming or Qing into the action.
When Qing wanted to flex her muscles, she also targeted the Burma too.
Overall, there were at least 5 major Chinese invasions to the Burmese land occurred during the Ming and Qing period. And all of the invasions were failures.
 
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