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Stellaris Dev Diary #127 - Trade Value and Trade Routes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Trade Value
Trade Value is a new value that's being added in the Le Guin update for non-Gestalt empires, representing the civilian and private-sector economies of these empires. All Pops generate a small amount of Trade Value based on their living standards, with higher living standard Pops generating more trade value, and is also produced by a number of different jobs such as Clerks and Merchants. Additionally, Trade Value can be found as deposits in space, representing various resources that don't have a direct industrial application but might still be desirable to your population (for a real-life example, think of things like as precious stones used in jewelry). Trade Value has no inherent purpose, but can be turned into other resources by being exploited, representing taxation and tariffs imposed on the civilian economy by an empire that has the necessary infrastructure in place to benefit from it.
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In order for Trade Value to count as exploited, it has to fulfill two conditions:

1) There must be an upgraded Starbase in range from the system to collect the Trade Value. By default, upgraded Starbases can only collect inside their own system, but their collection range can be extended by constructing additional Trade Hub modules, with each module extending the collection range by a single system up to a maximum of 6 hyperlane jumps away. You do not need to build an orbital station to collect trade value from planets - this is done automatically if it is in range of a collecting Starbase.

2) Once collected, Trade Value needs to be sent to your capital system. This will be done automatically if the Starbase collecting is located in said capital system, but otherwise the Starbase must be connected to the capital through a Trade Route (more on that below).

Trade Value that is successfully exploited will be converted into other resources (currently, trade value is turned into energy credits at a 1:1 conversion rate, but which exact resources it becomes is fully scriptable and may differ depending on your empire type) and added to your monthly income.
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Trade Routes
Trade Routes are paths are that used to connect remote Starbases to your capital in order to exploit the trade value collected there. Each upgraded Starbase can support a single Trade Route by connecting to another Starbase, which is where the first Starbase will send all of its collected trade value. For example, an empire might have a remote Starbase (we'll call it starbase A), which is sending trade value to another Starbase closer to the capital (starbase B), which in turn sends on both its collected trade and all trade sent to it by starbase A on to the capital. The player has full control over which Starbase sends its value where, and can redraw routes, though there may be an efficiency loss on a newly drawn route for a time.

This means that if starbase A collects a value of 10 from the systems around it, and starbase B collects 15, 10 value will be sent from A to B and all 25 combined value is then sent on to C (the capital) and is successfully exploited. Any trade value that fails to reach the capital, either because of lack of collection, lack of a route, or piracy (more on that below) is wasted - the empire gets no benefits from it - so it'll be especially important to ensure any populous colonies that are generating a lot of trade value are properly connected via trade routes to your capital.

Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
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(Ignore any weird visuals such as sector borders, it's just a bug)

Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
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Additionally, any military fleet can be given orders to patrol a route between two Starbases to actively eliminate pirates and reduce the amount of piracy in the systems. The old system of spawning pirate ships in empty systems adjacent to your empire will also change - instead, pirate fleets may spawn in systems where a large amount of trade value is being lost to pirates. Overall, pirate fleets is something you will experience less often and can actively work to prevent, but will be more of an actual threat when they do spawn. We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty. We may also have a system similar to the old pirates for Gestalts, since they do not have access to Trade Value or Trade Routes.
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(Yes, we know the grammar/spelling is wrong, no need to point it out - the icons are also placeholders)

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Decisions and Planetary Bombardment

EDIT: Since it keeps being asked, at this point we are not ready to talk about how trade trades/trade agreements with other empires will work, only that they will exist in some form.
 
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The resource budget just got opened up drastically, and since a small graphic or model following a predetermined path isn't that incredibly resource intensive to begin with, at least not nearly as much as the pop problem, then why not have living systems? Especially now that obsurdly huge end game fleets are not quite as common since 2.0

I mean, you're not wrong. It's very much an option to take whatever resources were just opened up and immediately cram living systems into that hole. I'd just rather them not is all. Either leave that space open so that the game is just easier to run, or put like...actual gaming systems in instead of an immersion graphic. Correct me if I'm wrong but most people don't play games like EU4 and other Paradox titles for how graphically stimulating they are. Spending art and programming time on graphics along trade routes just seems super low priority for me. Maybe I'm the weird one but I don't spend too much time in systems outside of building mines and the occasional battle, neither of which should line up too often along an established trade route.
 
There will likely be too many sector capitals for that under the new system.

A civic that allows a second trade centre might be a thing though. If long routes are more pirate prone a trade focused empire might find having a way to make them shorter sufficiently valuable.

For details and gameplay, I don t know.
But that would make sense.
And would give a function to capitals of sectors which for the moment doesn t represent anything.
 
Would be fun build some privateer ships and raid trade routes.
Something like that:
- these ships can move through closed borders/rival borders without being at war
- these ships are neutral for everyone, but everyone can attack them without getting into war with you (AI will, if they do any damage to him or just because they can, based on ethics)
- if these ships are in the system with a trade route (of another empire), you block it (100% if the fleet is big enough, if not, then by some %)
- you get some diplomatic penalties for raiding and very big diplomatic penalties if your raiding is proven (adding big ships like cruisers/battleships, repairing privateers on starbases, getting privateer killed and studied will help them prove this very fast).

Can help to pass time in mid game without real war, but some agressive stuff.
 
not what I thought would be a trade route, when I thought of trade routes I thought that actual trade ships or caravans would travel from one place to another trading
The only difference between this and that is that yours has visual ships. And we dont even know for certain that there are not going to be visual ships.
 
Oh, I understand the changes to sectors, it's just the "feel" for me would be better as a bigger unit. Obviously this is personal taste and the change isn't even live yet so I'm happy to wait and see how it feels.
 
We're considering the ability to add additional collection points, but we don't want to make this easy as then there would be no need for long trade routes ever.
Maybe make trade exploitation a job, done by people in a specific building, with increasing capacity expanding more than linearly (e.g. capacity = number of employees squared). That would allow collection to be done anywhere, but make it much more efficient to collect in one place.
 
The only difference between this and that is that yours has visual ships. And we dont even know for certain that there are not going to be visual ships.

It could be just graphical. But if trade were actually carried by ships (like some mods do it) then pirates and raiders could engage them. Trade disruption wouldn't be abstract, it would be protecting shipping lanes from real attack.
 
I mean, you're not wrong. It's very much an option to take whatever resources were just opened up and immediately cram living systems into that hole. I'd just rather them not is all. Either leave that space open so that the game is just easier to run, or put like...actual gaming systems in instead of an immersion graphic. Correct me if I'm wrong but most people don't play games like EU4 and other Paradox titles for how graphically stimulating they are. Spending art and programming time on graphics along trade routes just seems super low priority for me. Maybe I'm the weird one but I don't spend too much time in systems outside of building mines and the occasional battle, neither of which should line up too often along an established trade route.
If trade routes get some nice little graphics of civilian traffic, I'm not sure how that'd be a massive drain on the game's processing budget honestly.

The graphics would be just that.. graphics. They're unrelated to the math behind piracy and such, they're just a visual representation. Can't be that much bigger a load for the game to handle than, say, asteroid belts.
 
If trade routes get some nice little graphics of civilian traffic, I'm not sure how that'd be a massive drain on the game's processing budget honestly.

The graphics would be just that.. graphics. They're unrelated to the math behind piracy and such, they're just a visual representation. Can't be that much bigger a load for the game to handle than, say, asteroid belts.
Asteroid belts dont move.
 
If trade routes get some nice little graphics of civilian traffic, I'm not sure how that'd be a massive drain on the game's processing budget honestly.

The graphics would be just that.. graphics. They're unrelated to the math behind piracy and such, they're just a visual representation. Can't be that much bigger a load for the game to handle than, say, asteroid belts.

I mean, are we talking just a little animation on the route itself in galaxy view, or actual ships in the system view that move across each system and then jump into the next when they reach the edge? If there's a way to get the latter without bogging down the game given how many of them there'll be then sure, I'm all for it.
 
Asteroid belts dont move.
Sure they do. All the little asteroids are constantly rotating.

Is there really a significant difference between rendering an asteroid belt and rendering a few ships moving between the centre and edge of a system?

I don't really want anything terribly complex. I don't expect the civilian ships to be persistant or anything- just, it'd be cool for them to be visualized and travel along the trade routes. Which basically just means a handful of tiny, intangible models moving from one edge of a system to the other.
 
Sure they do. All the little asteroids are constantly rotating.

I think the more technical correct term is orbiting or something else other than rotating. Because some asteroids do spin in additional to orbiting something else.

Otherwise carry on.
 
will there be a visual representation for trade routes? e.g. large cargo-spaceships that spawn and fly along the trade route
Maybe.
Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
I'm hoping this means that we get some nice "living system" graphics, like little blinking bouys and/or moving ships along the way of the route, but who knows.