Tinto Flavour #9 - 7th of March 2025 - Hungary

[ArVass]

Yeah exactly. I think I suggested that those 3/4 countries should be able to do it more often in another comment as well, especially since that's kind of how the Habsburgs gained heir foothold in central-eastern Europe. I'm more worried about how the semi-elective succession systems of Bohemia-Poland-Hungary will work, if they are in the game at all.

Unfortunately it seems that semi-elective is not in. But I would suggest that it should work in a way that if the "normal" heir (by primogeniture) is considered weak or has low legitimacy, the succession is "overwritten" by election (in which the valid/preferred candidates are local nobles or neighboring rulers with sufficient family ties).

 

[Polesie Admiral]

Unfortunately it seems that semi-elective is not in. But I would suggest that it should work in a way that if the "normal" heir (by primogeniture) is considered weak or has low legitimacy, the succession is "overwritten" by election (in which the valid/preferred candidates are local nobles or neighboring rulers with sufficient family ties).

Ayy great suggestion, suggest it in another post so the devs would see it

 

[Zbbts]

Unfortunately it seems that semi-elective is not in. But I would suggest that it should work in a way that if the "normal" heir (by primogeniture) is considered weak or has low legitimacy, the succession is "overwritten" by election (in which the valid/preferred candidates are local nobles or neighboring rulers with sufficient family ties).

I completely agree. Usually when the monarch had a stable successor, election didn't even come in the picture (the problem is that between the House of Árpád and the Habsburgs, rulers with stable legitimate male heirs were somehow the exception, not the norm, but if let's say, Louis of Anjou had a male heir then Sigismund or the Habsburgs (or the Hunyadis) might never came to power). Low legitimacy elective succession I can wholeheartedly agree with and if you are on the side of the somewhat illegitimate heir, you should fight and win to keep that family if you want to.

 

[ArVass]

I completely agree. Usually when the monarch had a stable successor, election didn't even come in the picture (the problem is that between the House of Árpád and the Habsburgs, rulers with stable legitimate male heirs were somehow the exception, not the norm, but if let's say, Louis of Anjou had a male heir then Sigismund or the Habsburgs (or the Hunyadis) might never came to power). Low legitimacy elective succession I can wholeheartedly agree with and if you are on the side of the somewhat illegitimate heir, you should fight and win to keep that family if you want to.

Currently it seems that in the case of "low legitimacy heir gets overthrown", the game would simulate that by civil war mechanics.

If the new ruler has low legitimacy/unpopular, the estates might "elect" a new one, and the two can enter a civil war until one wins or surrenders. But it would still be nicer if the game had an elegant solution fof such situations and avoid having to simulate it by civil wars.

 

[Zbbts]

Currently it seems that in the case of "low legitimacy heir gets overthrown", the game would simulate that by civil war mechanics.

If the new ruler has low legitimacy/unpopular, the estates might "elect" a new one, and the two can enter a civil war until one wins or surrenders. But it would still be nicer if the game had an elegant solution fof such situations and avoid having to simulate it by civil wars.

What if they give you an event before the civil war, with a choice to stand down? Idk how civil war mechanics will work exactly, but it would be nice if your controlled territories would be in scale with your legitimacy (that would also make choosing a side in a civil war more exciting, because if you didn't secure your succession with your previous ruler well enough, you would get 1 or 2 provinces against most of the country....unless you choose to be the pretender, then it's a swift takeover).

 

[Polesie Admiral]

Currently it seems that in the case of "low legitimacy heir gets overthrown", the game would simulate that by civil war mechanics.

the mechanic currently seems like "low legitimacy+low satifaction=succession war on ruler death\civil war to depose current ruler"

 

[terradani05]

Can we maybe see the accepted cultures in Hungary?

 

[Polesie Admiral]

sooo i thought about this for a while and maybe instead of it being "ruler inherit other country upon succession" it'll be "designated heir" succession where a specific character will get to be a country's heir kinda like in ck3 and it can work as a favor agreement(as was shown) or cb or events as used here, it can be used also to break unions

 

[ArVass]

@Pavía, event or advancement suggestion: Hungary Water

The recipe for Eau de Hongrie (Eau de la Reine de Hongrie, Queen's Water, Királynévíz) first appeared in the 1370, and is traditionally attributed to Queen Elisabeth of Poland, consort of King Charles I. This medicament is made with rosemary, thyme, and some sort of distilled brandy, and was the most popular perfume in Europe until the invention of the Eau de Cologne.

Potential effects (multiple possible inplementations make sense):
- disease resistance increase (as it was used as medicine)
- medicaments output increase, or
--> new medicaments or incense production method, utilizing for example Liquor + Medicaments

 

[koreanjesus218]

@Pavía, event or advancement suggestion: Hungary Water

The recipe for Eau de Hongrie (Eau de la Reina de Hongrie, Queen's Water, Királynévíz) first appeared in the 1370, and is traditionally attributed to Queen Elisabeth of Poland, consort of King Charles I. This medicament is made with rosemary, thyme, and some sort of distilled brandy, and was the most popular perfume in Europe until the invention of the Eau de Cologne.

Potential effects (multiple possible inplementations make sense):
- disease resistance increase (as it was used as medicine)
- medicaments output increase, or
--> new medicaments or incense production method, utilizing for example Liquor + Medicaments

I thought Eau de toilette was created for Elisabeth, or was that just a myth? Or are they the same?

 

[ArVass]

I thought Eau de toilette was created for Elisabeth, or was that just a myth? Or are they the same?

Eau de toilette is a generic name for lightly scented perfumes (of European perfumery traditions), the earliest type of which in Europe is the Queen's Water. So technically both statements are true

 

[Materloo]

So as far as I saw the gameplay videos of the game (i know it is still in development, but map incorrections are minor issues, which can be fixed in 1-2 hours) my suggestion for the border correction has not been implemented for Hungary.

It's quite frustrating, as many other users and players has shared better ideas. Seems like Paradox simply doesn't care if its a "minor" country, or not as supported as other countries.

 

[Makkasag]

So as far as I saw the gameplay videos of the game (i know it is still in development, but map incorrections are minor issues, which can be fixed in 1-2 hours) my suggestion for the border correction has not been implemented for Hungary.

Neither was the culture map changed. But someone said the youtubers got access to old builds, so it's still possible that the release version will look quite different.

(Reposting from the other thread.)

 

[Materloo]

Neither was the culture map changed. But someone said the youtubers got access to old builds, so it's still possible that the release version will look quite different.

(Reposting from the other thread.)

View attachment 1293569

The 56% presentation of the Hungarian culture is a joke. It has been researched on many scales, and the most unbiased estimates put the Hungarians up to 70-80% without Croatia obviously. The 315K Transylvanian-Romanian and 487K "Slovak" and over 200K Serbian is a joke. Wonder that the "ukranians" do reach 200k at the time, when it was their arrival to Rusynland.

I don't know, if the developers realize, that Slovakia had 2.921.212 population in 1910 which had 30% of Hungarian minority - over 880.000 ethnic Hungarians, 200.000 Germans, and 100K Rusyns - so its roughly 1.6 - 1.700.000 Slovaks.

So under 600 years the population of the "Slovaks" increased 3.5 times but Kingdom of Hungary had 14.000.000 population in 1910 and it has been only increased 4 times since the 1330's? Between 1880-1910 the population in the region in 30 years! Has increased by 500.000 people. We are talking about a rural mountainous region, where population density is lower than on the plains. Hungary had the highest population density on the plains - Banat - Transdanubia - Transtisza - Bácska etc. where the core Hungarian population has lived and did suffered the highest casualties during the Ottoman Wars and the post-ottoman wars. The previous 30-40 medieval - late-medieval village density in 50km2 has dropped to 5-20 after the Ottomans. It has been researched and excavated by both archaeology and you can find in the records as well.

So most of the 4 million population of Kingdom of Hungary has lived on the plains in villages and mainly in larger towns. This is the dawn when modern-day Slovakia has started to develop and increase in population like Transylvania.

I love these ethnic estimates from the medieval ages which are mainly based on the 19-20th census. Yet many people without deep researches forget that the Hungarians has lost their absolute majority in the Carpathian basin during the Ottoman Wars. And the inner migration and the devastation of the inner Hungarian plains are very well recorded.

 

[ArVass]

My main problem is that some of the minor, easy-to-fix but still very jarring errors haven't really been addressed; this includes correcting the typo in Szatmár and Fejér, renaming "Eger" province to Heves, moving the location of Zenta to the province of Bácska (Bács), some minor location names to be fixed, Carpathian terrain fix etc.

It leaves a sour aftertaste because it's otherwise very great, and these would take minimal effort to correct imo

 

[koreanjesus218]

Is there any hope that Visegrád will be added? Maybe it's just me, but it feels so wrong to see Buda as the capital of Anjou Hungary. I also think Charles's stats should get a buff, considering he is considered one of the best kings of Hungary, and his administrative and economic reforms paved the way for Louis the Great to become "Great".

On the topic of cultures, I understand the Transylvania compromise, as both sides claim they are underrepresented, but I mostly really hope the Serbs get reduced at the southern border. That's probably the most anachronistic part of the culture map. But also, 55% does seem really low, now that we see the full demographics.

 

[Materloo]

Had to do it, sorry

 

[Makkasag]

without Croatia obviously

Well the situation is somewhat better because Hungary owns a lot of croatian territory in the startdate, but I don't care enough to recalculate the percantages. Maybe I couldn't even do it since not all slice datas are known.

But these number are indeed weird.

I think Fehérvári said something about not using Kocsis's numbers, I don't really remember, but I have those here.

What seems to be interesting is that the hungarian culture isn't the only one that seems to be underrepresented.

I am speaking of the transylvanian german pops here.

They are close in size to the romanian population in transylvania, both around 100k people in 1495. Although maybe there are a correct number of them.

For Slovakia, 186K slovaks, 70k germans.

But what I really wonder about, is the 68 thousand orthodox pops, that are neither serb nor romanian.

 

[koreanjesus218]

Had to do it, sorryView attachment 1293938

 

[Makkasag]

It leaves a sour aftertaste because it's otherwise very great, and these would take minimal effort to correct imo

Agreed.

I really want to believe that the streamers got a way older version. I think I heard a dev say months ago that the game is in a playable state, so possible.

But if it isn't, that's a bit alarming.

It can still be fixed for release, but if it isn't, we will either have to start loudly complaining, or make a mod.

Since I am lazy and still somewhat optimistic, I won't start writing that masterlist.