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Tinto Flavour #9 - 7th of March 2025 - Hungary

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays where we share with you the flavourish content of the super secret Project Caesar!

Today we will take a look at one of my favourite countries to playtest the game, the Kingdom of Hungary!:

For centuries, the great Kingdom of Hungary defended the border of Christendom from the pagans and heathens beyond it. Recent noble rebellions put this duty in danger, but thanks to the iron hand of King d’Angiò Karoly, the disgruntled nobles have been reined back under his rule and the Christian bastion is renewed and reinforced.

However, the future of Hungary is not to dwell in peace, as already new trouble is brewing in the southeast that will challenge the strength of the Regnum Marianum.

What fate awaits for the Kingdom of Hungary? Will it fall to the enemies of the faith? Or will it stand proud before the waves of those who seek its demise?

Country Selection.png

We are currently working to have a more settled dynastic flavour, but for the moment, the House of Anjou is taking its naming from the Italian variant of it, since it’s the main House, so take it as WIP; as any UI, 2D and 3D art, as usual.

Here is Hungary:
Hungary.png


And its starting diplomatic situation:
Diplomacy.png

Poland is allied, while Croatia is in a personal union. Not shown on the map (yet) is that Hungary is embargoing Austria, as a result of the pact made with Bohemia.

Hungary has a few interesting interesting starting privileges:
Monetary Fiefs.png

This is not a unique privilege, but a generic one that we created taking into account Hungary’s situation in 1337; a few countries across Europe also start with it enacted.

Invite German Settlers.png

We already showed this privilege in Tinto Flavour #1, if you remember.

By having it active, it may trigger this recurrent event:
Invite German Settlers2.png

Invite German Settlers3.png

Classical flavour Parliament:
Orszaggyules.png

And starting works of art:
Works of Art.png

Here are some interesting advances for Hungary:
Realm of Many Cultures.png

This advance helps Hungary manage all the different cultures it starts with and also portrays a historical policy followed by many Hungarian kings in the Middle Ages.

Composite Light Cavalry.png

Cumans!

Found the Black Army.png

Hungarian Black Army.png

Among the several options we had available to portray the infamous Black Army, we decided upon making them a regular Infantry unit. We thought about making it a unique mercenary company, but since they were usually directly on the payroll of the Hungarian kings, we thought that it would work better as a recruitable unique unit.

A couple of war-oriented advances for the Age of Reformation:
Bulwark of Christianity.png

Hungarian Hussars.png

Hungarian Hussars2.png

There’s a generic Hussar cavalry unit, that is available in the Age of Absolutism. This means that Hungary gets its unique Hussar cavalry unit one age earlier. They aren’t the only country with unique Hussar units, but we will show those in future Tinto Flavour…

Also in the Age of Reformation, you will get these advances depending on which religion you follow; the first is for a Catholic Hungary, and the other two for a Protestant Hungary:
Catholic Shield.png

Hungarian Reformation.png

Realm of Many Religions.png

We will explain what ‘Religious Influence’ and ‘Church Power Actions’ are in the Tinto Talks devoted to Catholicism and Protestantism, respectively. For the moment, we let you decide which religion is the True Faith, and which are Heretical and Heathen to you.

Let’s now move to the narrative content for Hungary, which is really interesting in the first years of a game, since lots of historical events happened in real life...

Soon after the start of the game, you’ll get this event, showing the power of King Károly:
Absolute Rule.png

Absolute Rule2.png

Absolute Rule3.png

Absolute Rule4.png

An additional Cabinet Seat during the king’s life is a really strong bonus!

This event may also trigger on a dynamic date:
Congress of Visegrad.jpg

Congress of Visegrad2.png

Union of Crown.png

This eventually may lead to a follow-up event, which also unlocks a unique diplomatic relation:
Congress of Visegrad3.png

Union of Crowns Pact.png

It doesn’t necessarily mean that both may unite, if both have an heir, as historically happened. For instance, this is from the gameplay I was doing to take the screenshots:
Regency.png

During the reign of King Lajos, a few more interesting events happened:
Gold of Hungary.png

Gold of Hungary2.png

Gold of Hungary3.png

Gold of Hungary4.png

A very interesting event… I reported no less than 4 issues to fix when it got triggered!

Order of Saint George.png

Order of Saint George2.png

An interesting character to recruit…:
Toldi Miklos.png

Oh, and you may also be a secondary character in a Neapolitan plot…:
Neapolitan Prince.png

…And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week, on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for Arabia, and on Friday we will take a look at the Kingdom of Scotland! @SaintDaveUK and @Roger Corominas will reply instead of me for the later, as I have to take a flight that afternoon. Cheers!
 
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Does Hungary have anything unique regarding the German settlers considering the Transylvanian saxons, if not maybe you could have a variation of the privilege that encourages Germans migrating into Transylvania to convey to Transylvanian Saxon
 
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How exactly should I understand the "Manpower +10%" modifier?
Also, what is the reasoning behind giving some regiments different monthly manpower costs from others? I am honestly not sure whether I agree with this upkeep cost in the first place, as the process of pop growth/decline (implicitly including aging, more or less...) is already modelled, although I am willing to see this upkeep as an abstraction of... training accidents.
 
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It's a releasable country - I just did it and took this in-game screenshot:
View attachment 1262376
Will we get some kind of dev diary on releasable in the future with a list of them all like we got for formables if not I’d love if you started including all the releasable for a country in their tinto flavor, also on this topic does Hungary have anything unique regarding other releasables other than Transylvania?
 
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1. I see that there is some content related to the gold export, but is there anything for the actual production of gold, that allowed Hungary to become one of the largest producers at the time?

2. And for laws, this period of Hungarian history is mainly known for the legal reforms, so is there anything for the Urbura, Entailment (Ősiség)? These were pretty important at the time, and Entailment lasted all the way into the 19th century (by that time it was seen as kinda bad though as it held back development)

3. For the administration, I hope there's a bit more content than the Monetary Fiefs (also, as others have pointed out, the modifiers seem to be the wrong way around). I would like to mainly suggest 3 things if they are not already in the game that I think would be important for Hungary to be represented properly:

A. Seats: The Szekelys, Saxons, Cumans and Jasz were organised into seats who had more local autonomy, and specific privileges, usually paying less taxes for military service. They might not each need unique content, but were different. I see there's Cuman cavalry, but the Szekely cavalry was also often used and relied upon. Saxon towns had other privileges, such as only Germans being allowed to settle in them. Also, this whole thing with settling new cultures in Hungary wasn't even that long ago. Some seats were created less than 100 years before the start date, so it should be possible to create new ones as the game progresses.

B. Bans and Voivodes: These were also appointed officials, but they were used to administer larger regions of the kingdom that were slightly disconnected. As new areas were conquered in the balkans, new Banates were created. Maybe there could be some modifier for areas that gives them slightly more autonomy, but are easier to administer?

C. Royal free cities: Kinda like the free imperial cities in the HRE, these cities had more autonomy and later could send representatives to the diet. Maybe this is already in the game with the city/town mechanic, but I think it would be important to portray these towns as having just that extra bit of autonomy. Maybe something like less control, but more development?
 
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Is there flavour regarding the Cuman population of Hungary, and how the kings leveraged them as a military force in counter-balance to the Hungarian nobility?
Reposting a previous comment of mine about the cumans and jász people too.

"Started reading a book about the history of the Jász and Kun under Charles I.

During the interregnum 20 000 cumans supported Charles, who instead of paying tham a monthly salary allowed them to plunder Moravia. The Cumans are called pagans in foreign books that year, and in one instence people think they are polish. In 1321 Charles sends 2000 hungarians and 4000 cuman archers as help to Frederick II

Then in 1323 we have the document full of christian and pagan names. These are jász people.

Larzan son of Zokan
Iwachan son of Furduk
Jakab (Jacob) son of Keskene
Chareth son of Ambultan
Demeter son of Subul
István (Stephen) son of Begzun
Pál (Paul) son of Mokzun
Endre (Andrew), Zakaran, and György (George) sons of Chakan
Demeter, Keyan, István (Stephen) sons of Kurman
Hurz, Arpan, Endre (Andrew)sons of Zuagan
Zaduk son of Kalhen
Gergely (Gregory) son of Magar
Péter (Peter) son of Chamaz

Some names are similar to cuman and pecheneg names."

The document states that the jász served in the armies of Charles too. You can see in the document that some of them are already showing signs of assimilation, while the fathers still carry pagan names.

"Speaking of faith, converting the cumans to the catholic faith is a bit difficult. The church asks the recently converted cumans to pay the tithe strictly, and they don't like it.At all. They don't like it on such a level, that Charles sends a letter to the Pope to report it. Pope John XXII's reply arrives on the 8th of May 1328, where he forbids the archbishops of Esztergom and Kalocsa from taxing a full tithe from the cumans until they "strengthen in faith" and that they should treat the cumans with patience and humanely.

The papacy is asked to convert the cumans and jász in 1321, 1328, 1329, 1332, 1348, 1369, 1374, 1375, and 1399.

So I would say both the Cumans and the Jász should have some non-christian pops."

"Loius the Great will be annoyed by the cumans since he was the zelaous type, one source claims that the cumans still live in "houses made of cloth" aka tents in 1348. Louis keeps writing to the pope, who in 1354 will send in the Minorites, who are mostly successfull. By 1391 the church is present in the Jászság."

So yeah, both cumans and jász should have some pagans and some christian pops in 1337 I think.
The book that I read but did not finish was "A jász-kúnok története I-IV." (History of the cuman-jász people I.-IV.) (written beetwen 1870-1885) by István Gyárfás
 
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Reposting a previous comment of mine about the cumans and jász people too.

"Started reading a book about the history of the Jász and Kun under Charles I.

During the interregnum 20 000 cumans supported Charles, who instead of paying tham a monthly salary allowed them to plunder Moravia. The Cumans are called pagans in foreign books that year, and in one instence people think they are polish. In 1321 Charles sends 2000 hungarians and 4000 cuman archers as help to Frederick II

Then in 1323 we have the document full of christian and pagan names. These are jász people.

Larzan son of Zokan
Iwachan son of Furduk
Jakab (Jacob) son of Keskene
Chareth son of Ambultan
Demeter son of Subul
István (Stephen) son of Begzun
Pál (Paul) son of Mokzun
Endre (Andrew), Zakaran, and György (George) sons of Chakan
Demeter, Keyan, István (Stephen) sons of Kurman
Hurz, Arpan, Endre (Andrew)sons of Zuagan
Zaduk son of Kalhen
Gergely (Gregory) son of Magar
Péter (Peter) son of Chamaz

Some names are similar to cuman and pecheneg names."

The document states that the jász served in the armies of Charles too. You can see in the document that some of them are already showing signs of assimilation, while the fathers still carry pagan names.

"Speaking of faith, converting the cumans to the catholic faith is a bit difficult. The church asks the recently converted cumans to pay the tithe strictly, and they don't like it.At all. They don't like it on such a level, that Charles sends a letter to the Pope to report it. Pope John XXII's reply arrives on the 8th of May 1328, where he forbids the archbishops of Esztergom and Kalocsa from taxing a full tithe from the cumans until they "strengthen in faith" and that they should treat the cumans with patience and humanely.

The papacy is asked to convert the cumans and jász in 1321, 1328, 1329, 1332, 1348, 1369, 1374, 1375, and 1399.

So I would say both the Cumans and the Jász should have some non-christian pops."

"Loius the Great will be annoyed by the cumans since he was the zelaous type, one source claims that the cumans still live in "houses made of cloth" aka tents in 1348. Louis keeps writing to the pope, who in 1354 will send in the Minorites, who are mostly successfull. By 1391 the church is present in the Jászság."

So yeah, both cumans and jász should have some pagans and some christian pops in 1337 I think.
The book that I read but did not finish was "A jász-kúnok története I-IV." (History of the cuman-jász people I.-IV.) (written beetwen 1870-1885) by István Gyárfás
shouldnt this stuff about pops go into the map feedback thread? Or did you already post it there
 
1. We're focusing mostly on historical content.
2. It depends on how Hungary and its neighbors are performing, it's not something scripted, but that may happen organically.
If the focus is historical content, is there a possibility for a Hungarian king whose rule is disputed to give up the title King of Hungary and just become Prince of Transylvania (Or maybe with another title, like Ban of Croatia/Slavonia)?
 
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Also can pope Julius II have his famous beard? Even if he only had it a limited time that’s what he is known for visually speaking. If that is him, not sure what the Theron stands for
It's not that Julius II. I ran the game for a few years to take proper screenshots, so the Pope died, and the new one elected his name from the pool of extant Papal names, which is of course historical... :D
 
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Dynasty names should probably be taken from the country's culture language when possible while the characters rule over the given country; historically it was the case often the dynasties were translated just as personal names did. I.e., the Habsburg were known as Habsburgo in Spain, d'Asburgo in Italy and Habsburska in Bohemia, while the family was Austrian.
 
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I'm glad to see that the setting of Hungarian family names being placed before personal names in CKII has finally returned. This is very important for East Asian countries.
 
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Question: The bulwark of Christendom advance. what if no Turkish Beylik is able to best the Romans of Byzantium? and thus the balkans remains christian? ie byzantium resurgence. Seems odd to be the bulwark when you aren't being threatened by non-christians.
It may happen, and it may be a bit immersion-breaking. But it's also true that Hungarian kings historically their kingdom a bastion of Christendom against eastern threats, so in that regard, we think that it keeps making sense, flavour-wise.
 
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What is the process behind deciding the names of rulers btw? I mean, sure, he's referred to as Charles I, but what happens to the Robert? In Hungary he's mainly known as Károly Róbert, not as I. Károly (at least what I've heard). I personally would not be opposed to going full out naming him Caroberto, but that might mess with the numbering.
 
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I'm upset that Henry from Kingdom Come Deliverance II isn't listed as an alternate ruler for Hungary complete with his catch phrase: "I'm feeling quite Hungary!"
 
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Has the pop editor been fixed for the upcoming TM review?
1. Good news, yes, the pop editor has been fixed!
2. Bad news (FTM): We think that at this stage, is more efficient for our workflow to keep working on the review of most aspects, and then we'll make the pop review (both on population size and minorities) all at once. We have already been bookmarking all the relevant and helpful posts in all Tinto Maps posts, so we won't lose any information during the process, just make it differently, workflow-wise.
 
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