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Tinto Maps #1 - 10th of May 2024 - Low Countries

Hello everybody, and welcome to the first post of Tinto Maps! This is a new weekly series that we will be running about the top-secret game Project Caesar.

Let me introduce myself before I continue, as some of you may get to know me from the development of the latest EUIV DLCs, but I might not be as well-known to everyone as Johan. I’m Pavía, the Content Design Lead at Paradox Tinto, which I joined in 2021. Before becoming a videogame developer, my background was as a Historian, which led me to work on a PhD. in Medieval History (fool me!), which I finished in 2020. Besides that, I’ve spent several thousands of hours of my life playing Paradox GSGs since I discovered and started playing Europa Universalis 20 years ago, in 2004.

What this new series will be about is quite straightforward: each week I will be sharing with you maps of a new different region, so you have an outlook of them and we are able to receive early feedback (because as you may already know from Johan’s Tinto Talks, there is still a lot of WIP stuff ongoing).

About this feedback, we’d like you to take into account a couple of things. The first is that we’ve worked really hard to gather the best sources of information available to craft the best possible map; we used GIS tools with several layers of historical map sources from academic works, geographical data, administrative data, etc., to help us ensure the desired quality. So we would appreciate getting specific suggestions backed by these types of sources, as others (let’s say, a Wikipedia map or YouTube video with no references) may not be reliable enough. The second thing to comment on is that sometimes a certain decision we made was an interpretation over an unclear source, while sometimes we have just plainly made some errors when crafting the map (which on a 30,000 location map is a normal thing, I guess). I’ll let you know when any of these happen, and I’m also going to ask for your understanding when an error or bug is found and confirmed as such.

With those forewords said, let’s start with today’s region: the Low Countries! This is what the political map looks like:

Countries.png

The regional situation in 1337. The counties of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeeland are ruled by William of Avesnes, who is married to Joanna, daughter of Duke John III of Brabant. Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia. The County of Flanders is the wealthiest country in the region, controlling such important cities as Brugge and Ghent. Up in the north, we have other interesting countries, such as the Bishopric of Utrecht or the Republic of Frisia (you might notice that we're using a dynamic custom country name for them, 'Frisian Freedom').

And here we have the locations:

Locations.png

We had a fun bug for some time - Antwerpen didn’t have any pixels connected to the sea, which we found because we couldn’t build any type of port building there. There’s a happy ending, as the bug has already been corrected, and Antwerpen can finally have a proper port!

Provinces:

Provinces.jpg


Terrain (Climate, Topography, and Vegetation):

Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

We are aware that the Netherlands looked differently in the 14th century, as several land reclamations took place during the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, but we are using a 20th-century version of the map for the sake of consistency. Most of the regions throughout the world would look quite different from nowadays, and documenting those changes (especially the coastline shapes) would be a non-trivial problem to resolve. As a side note, we already removed Flevoland from it, and have already identified some other modern ones that slipped through and we'll eventually remove them, as well.

Cultures:

Cultures.png

The stripes mean that there are pops of different culture inhabiting in those location. Also, the German and French cultures are WIP, we’ll show you a proper version on later Tinto Maps.

Religions:

Religions.png

Not many religions here yet, although there will be interesting religious stuff happening eventually…

Raw Goods:

Goods.png

Goods get regularly swapped around here and there to have a balance between geographical and historical accuracy, and gameplay purposes. So take this as the far-from-final current version of them.

And an additional map for this week:

Markets.png

We reinstated a Low Countries market centered on Antwerpen, after doing some balance tweaks that made it more viable.

And these are the maps for today! I hope that you have a nice weekend, and next Friday, we will travel down south, to Iberia!
 

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Yes, there is, but the screenshot was taken with no country selected.
On "i hope there will be some heatmap for population density - rather hard to see where pops live."

Is there also something planned like a scaled heat heat map that takes into account the pops/area of a location. Because I hate it in games when large states show up as blinking red just because they naturally encompass more people.

Since locations are static you can probably store the area in some file for easy access but guess depends on how easy it is to access that area metric in the first place..
 
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It seems localised language is used for location names in the Low Countries (Den Haag instead of the Hague). So why isn’t Frisian used for Fryslân (Frisia)? Leeuwarden for example would be Ljouwert.
 
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Is there a chance for dynamic cultures? For eg. when England colonises the new world culture shifts to american, it would be amazing if the same happened for other cultures for eg. germans near volga becoming volga germans. It could even be generic like "north american polish culture" because doing that for all cultures is way too much work.

Also it would be awesome if cultures could diverge and merge with a lot of effort. I would love that even though I know its a lot of work for the dev team.
 
i am wondering why you show "mönchenglatbach" and "neuss" but not krefeld (spelled Crefeld in medival times)
i know krefeld wasnt a city until 1373 but it was first named in documents 1105. Next to Lyon und Zürich its the main city for silk in europe.
in fact it is still known as the "Velvet and Silk City" and was the most importent City for Silk in the german area. much more famous history then the regions they show there.
I know that silk aint an importent good in 1337 but considering how importent it becomes its strange to see mönchengladbach and neuss but no krefeld xD
 
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On the map the polder known as the Wieringermeer in the North-East of modern-day North Holland already exists, when it was only made in 1924.

There was an island there, known as Wieringen, but the polder didn't exist yet. It won't let me post the link, but you can find old maps showing this on the website old maps online from the University of Utrecht, and many other such sources.

There are many other issues with land areas that do not yet exist or are lakes at this time, and I understand not all can realistically be depicted as they're small and change over time. This particular polder is rather large though, and a common one to miss for people recreating the old Netherlands on maps.
 
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On "i hope there will be some heatmap for population density - rather hard to see where pops live."

Is there also something planned like a scaled heat heat map that takes into account the pops/area of a location. Because I hate it in games when large states show up as blinking red just because they naturally encompass more people.

Since locations are static you can probably store the area in some file for easy access but guess depends on how easy it is to access that area metric in the first place..
Assuming that locations are very roughly similar in size, which was implied previously iirc, it would probably be enough to simply show pops/location in a gradient/heatmap. In case you mean a mapmode to show country population, having a mapmode for both absolute numbers as well as a "population per area/location" would be neat too, to get a grasp on population density.
 
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Could you make the shapes of the boundaries of locations and provinces follow the shape of major rivers like the Rhine and Danube?
The major german rivers were not the flows of today but were forged by humans in their riverbed, before they were smaller flows ,marches and wetlands, an incorporated undertaking for forming these streams would be a nice mechanic. I would like it to be that the regions would be dynamic and locations could switch to other states.
 
I would like the locations to bee a bit more dynamic that after a long time of segregation they could form new or split from existing states(larger terretorial region, dont know how it was called).
 
Hello, I'm interested in how the countries in the HRE are decided. In particular the country of Tecklenburg interests me as it is depicted far bigger than it was. The location of Lingen was pretty much what made the country of Bad Bentheim which at various points even owned Tecklenburg and Steinfurt.
So basically my question is how it's decided that one state comes above another. Is it economy, populationor severall other factors?
 
Hello, I'm interested in how the countries in the HRE are decided. In particular the country of Tecklenburg interests me as it is depicted far bigger than it was. The location of Lingen was pretty much what made the country of Bad Bentheim which at various points even owned Tecklenburg and Steinfurt.
So basically my question is how it's decided that one state comes above another. Is it economy, populationor severall other factors?
I dont know how the countries in the HRE are decided, but it will be difficult to make a dynamic game mechanic for that, because those ´´countries´´ were rather land and holdings of a person and their vassals. Also Cityholders and Bishops had smaller cities and churches under them. So the population and size of the location should not be the deciding factor but rather a kind of influence and military migth.
 
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Thank you for making so many announcements about the Caesar project. this will allow me to take the advance to save money and buy the game in pre-order : )
 
Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia.
And not just Bohemia. He also controlled significant parts of north-eastern Italy and became the liege lord of Mazovia in 1327.

Dude was straight-up overpowered. Might be one of the strongest rulers in 1327, definitely top 5 (in Europe)

That said, I think the Luxemburg proper is wee too big. The whole south-eastern bit should still be part of Ciny in 1327, as far as I recall. But that part of HRE is not my realm of expertise, so I'll trust you.
 
Are you sure about sandy soils having no trees?
The article linked in my thread about German vegetation specifically said that the part of Schleswig-Holstein which has sandy soils was forested for the first half of the game's timeframe, because it wasn't suitable for agriculture, so people didn't keep cutting down the trees to make farmland.

I don't doubt that forests were eventually cleared completely and were only brought back more recently, but that doesn't necessarily mean that no woods were there in 1337.
Where did I say no trees? There are trees growing all over the Lowlands at this time, just not the numbers at this location that would justify calling it woodland let alone a forest. Veluwe actually originates from what in English would translate into fallow wasteland. There is an academic paper in Dutch of van Bath (not certain on the name though) regarding agricultural production in the Veluwe region based on historic documents of the 13th and 14th century. The area was settled between 1000 and 1200. That shows that almost all settlements were at the edge near wetter, lower, river sides Rijn and IJssel and bordering the Zuiderzee. Oats and other sturdy grains being the most important produce and trading in low numbers of pigs compared to other Dutch regions because of a lack of area to have them forage in woodlands (akeren being the most common practice to farm pigs). Also there are pollen studies that show that heath was the dominant vegetation type, so making this area produce wool would be quite right as those were the animals used to graze those.
 
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