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Tinto Maps #1 - 10th of May 2024 - Low Countries

Hello everybody, and welcome to the first post of Tinto Maps! This is a new weekly series that we will be running about the top-secret game Project Caesar.

Let me introduce myself before I continue, as some of you may get to know me from the development of the latest EUIV DLCs, but I might not be as well-known to everyone as Johan. I’m Pavía, the Content Design Lead at Paradox Tinto, which I joined in 2021. Before becoming a videogame developer, my background was as a Historian, which led me to work on a PhD. in Medieval History (fool me!), which I finished in 2020. Besides that, I’ve spent several thousands of hours of my life playing Paradox GSGs since I discovered and started playing Europa Universalis 20 years ago, in 2004.

What this new series will be about is quite straightforward: each week I will be sharing with you maps of a new different region, so you have an outlook of them and we are able to receive early feedback (because as you may already know from Johan’s Tinto Talks, there is still a lot of WIP stuff ongoing).

About this feedback, we’d like you to take into account a couple of things. The first is that we’ve worked really hard to gather the best sources of information available to craft the best possible map; we used GIS tools with several layers of historical map sources from academic works, geographical data, administrative data, etc., to help us ensure the desired quality. So we would appreciate getting specific suggestions backed by these types of sources, as others (let’s say, a Wikipedia map or YouTube video with no references) may not be reliable enough. The second thing to comment on is that sometimes a certain decision we made was an interpretation over an unclear source, while sometimes we have just plainly made some errors when crafting the map (which on a 30,000 location map is a normal thing, I guess). I’ll let you know when any of these happen, and I’m also going to ask for your understanding when an error or bug is found and confirmed as such.

With those forewords said, let’s start with today’s region: the Low Countries! This is what the political map looks like:

Countries.png

The regional situation in 1337. The counties of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeeland are ruled by William of Avesnes, who is married to Joanna, daughter of Duke John III of Brabant. Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia. The County of Flanders is the wealthiest country in the region, controlling such important cities as Brugge and Ghent. Up in the north, we have other interesting countries, such as the Bishopric of Utrecht or the Republic of Frisia (you might notice that we're using a dynamic custom country name for them, 'Frisian Freedom').

And here we have the locations:

Locations.png

We had a fun bug for some time - Antwerpen didn’t have any pixels connected to the sea, which we found because we couldn’t build any type of port building there. There’s a happy ending, as the bug has already been corrected, and Antwerpen can finally have a proper port!

Provinces:

Provinces.jpg


Terrain (Climate, Topography, and Vegetation):

Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

We are aware that the Netherlands looked differently in the 14th century, as several land reclamations took place during the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, but we are using a 20th-century version of the map for the sake of consistency. Most of the regions throughout the world would look quite different from nowadays, and documenting those changes (especially the coastline shapes) would be a non-trivial problem to resolve. As a side note, we already removed Flevoland from it, and have already identified some other modern ones that slipped through and we'll eventually remove them, as well.

Cultures:

Cultures.png

The stripes mean that there are pops of different culture inhabiting in those location. Also, the German and French cultures are WIP, we’ll show you a proper version on later Tinto Maps.

Religions:

Religions.png

Not many religions here yet, although there will be interesting religious stuff happening eventually…

Raw Goods:

Goods.png

Goods get regularly swapped around here and there to have a balance between geographical and historical accuracy, and gameplay purposes. So take this as the far-from-final current version of them.

And an additional map for this week:

Markets.png

We reinstated a Low Countries market centered on Antwerpen, after doing some balance tweaks that made it more viable.

And these are the maps for today! I hope that you have a nice weekend, and next Friday, we will travel down south, to Iberia!
 

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Another curiosity, how did you determine the ruggedness of the landscape? Was it done by hand or programmatically? If the latter, could you share the rough algorithm/way you determined using the underlying data?
 
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This is just amazing, it's a revolutionary progress from the last versions of EU4 and even most other PDX games in terms of attention to detail.

A curiosity about the climate, how would highland tropical regions be represented? Under the Köppen climate classifications they end up having bizzarre not fully representative climate like Oceanic for the Colombian highlands or Tundra/Artic for most of Peruvian Andes, but that might not allow you to have the adequate granularity needed.
We're using the Köppen climate classification worldwide, to have consistent climates.
 
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Wow ! I'm stunned ! I love it especially since I love playing as the Dutch. I was also the one trying to decipher every independent country from last week's map.

I love it. You guys did a great job.

So I went back to my atlas of historical Zeeland map (author Aad de Kerk) I bought when I was in Vlissingen last year. There are earlier map than this one (drawn in 1578 for the World atlas by Gerard de Jode) but Medieval mapmaking was approximate at best.

Suggestions

  • Detaching Walcheren as it's own island (it's the heart of Zeeland with the biggest towns: Middelburg the capital, and Vlissingen the main port). Walcheren remained an island and wasn't polderized as an isthmus until the end of the 19th Century. The villages you see lying 'in the water' so to speak had been recently flooded out of existence at that point in time.
  • Reworking the coast of the in-game location of Hulst according to the following map
Cheers !

Note: I've also included a 1658 map (N. Visscher) for kicks and giggles.
 

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No beer in Belgium? Or not yet?

I've only been to Belgium a few times, but I've not seen any Beer Mines or Beer Trees there.. All beers I tried were made from Breweries.
 
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Lovely. You've actually included all the places I've lived over the years into the location map: Groningen, Dokkum, Coevorden, Enschede and Rotterdam. :D
 
I read that page, yes, but if that's its only use, well... This feels like an unnecessary trade good to me, why not lump it with the dyes trade good? <EDIT also used for glass/cloth according to earlier answer\>

i'm not sure about the distinction between dates and fruits either btw... I get the vegetable/potato one because the potato introduction from the new world makes for a bunch of flavor, I get the olives distinction (although I may prefer 'oil', which could include other vegetable oils), but the dates? (It does prevent people from going "fruits in algeria bug bug bug though (yes, I have greenland ivory ptsd :p ))
My expertise is more in Antiquity, but dates are/were a very important fruit in the Middle East . In Ancient Egypt they were a very important food for soldiers, since when dried, they can last for a very long time. So I assume that would be the same during EU4's timeframe, but I couldn't find a source about that on the fly. At the very least it would still be a very important food source.
 
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Another curiosity, how did you determine the ruggedness of the landscape? Was it done by hand or programmatically? If the latter, could you share the rough algorithm/way you determined using the underlying data?
By hand, using topographical layers on GIS.
 
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Two things I noticed as a dutchman: The Den Haag-Rotterdam border is quite low, almost as if Rotterdam is not in the Rotterdam region.
Similarly the Arnhem region is quite far northward, and i'm not sure if Arnhem is in that region, I think it's more in the southern part of the 'Apeldoorn' region.
 
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Will locations have flood penalties until measure are taken (dikes, quays, etc..)?

Also will internal migration happen naturally without needing to show up as an event?
 
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