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Tinto Maps #1 - 10th of May 2024 - Low Countries

Hello everybody, and welcome to the first post of Tinto Maps! This is a new weekly series that we will be running about the top-secret game Project Caesar.

Let me introduce myself before I continue, as some of you may get to know me from the development of the latest EUIV DLCs, but I might not be as well-known to everyone as Johan. I’m Pavía, the Content Design Lead at Paradox Tinto, which I joined in 2021. Before becoming a videogame developer, my background was as a Historian, which led me to work on a PhD. in Medieval History (fool me!), which I finished in 2020. Besides that, I’ve spent several thousands of hours of my life playing Paradox GSGs since I discovered and started playing Europa Universalis 20 years ago, in 2004.

What this new series will be about is quite straightforward: each week I will be sharing with you maps of a new different region, so you have an outlook of them and we are able to receive early feedback (because as you may already know from Johan’s Tinto Talks, there is still a lot of WIP stuff ongoing).

About this feedback, we’d like you to take into account a couple of things. The first is that we’ve worked really hard to gather the best sources of information available to craft the best possible map; we used GIS tools with several layers of historical map sources from academic works, geographical data, administrative data, etc., to help us ensure the desired quality. So we would appreciate getting specific suggestions backed by these types of sources, as others (let’s say, a Wikipedia map or YouTube video with no references) may not be reliable enough. The second thing to comment on is that sometimes a certain decision we made was an interpretation over an unclear source, while sometimes we have just plainly made some errors when crafting the map (which on a 30,000 location map is a normal thing, I guess). I’ll let you know when any of these happen, and I’m also going to ask for your understanding when an error or bug is found and confirmed as such.

With those forewords said, let’s start with today’s region: the Low Countries! This is what the political map looks like:

Countries.png

The regional situation in 1337. The counties of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeeland are ruled by William of Avesnes, who is married to Joanna, daughter of Duke John III of Brabant. Another John, the Duke of Luxembourg, might be the strongest power, as he is also the King of Bohemia. The County of Flanders is the wealthiest country in the region, controlling such important cities as Brugge and Ghent. Up in the north, we have other interesting countries, such as the Bishopric of Utrecht or the Republic of Frisia (you might notice that we're using a dynamic custom country name for them, 'Frisian Freedom').

And here we have the locations:

Locations.png

We had a fun bug for some time - Antwerpen didn’t have any pixels connected to the sea, which we found because we couldn’t build any type of port building there. There’s a happy ending, as the bug has already been corrected, and Antwerpen can finally have a proper port!

Provinces:

Provinces.jpg


Terrain (Climate, Topography, and Vegetation):

Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

We are aware that the Netherlands looked differently in the 14th century, as several land reclamations took place during the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, but we are using a 20th-century version of the map for the sake of consistency. Most of the regions throughout the world would look quite different from nowadays, and documenting those changes (especially the coastline shapes) would be a non-trivial problem to resolve. As a side note, we already removed Flevoland from it, and have already identified some other modern ones that slipped through and we'll eventually remove them, as well.

Cultures:

Cultures.png

The stripes mean that there are pops of different culture inhabiting in those location. Also, the German and French cultures are WIP, we’ll show you a proper version on later Tinto Maps.

Religions:

Religions.png

Not many religions here yet, although there will be interesting religious stuff happening eventually…

Raw Goods:

Goods.png

Goods get regularly swapped around here and there to have a balance between geographical and historical accuracy, and gameplay purposes. So take this as the far-from-final current version of them.

And an additional map for this week:

Markets.png

We reinstated a Low Countries market centered on Antwerpen, after doing some balance tweaks that made it more viable.

And these are the maps for today! I hope that you have a nice weekend, and next Friday, we will travel down south, to Iberia!
 

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Currently I'm applying for jobs in the GIS sector, so naturally I'm curious:

Can you expand on the technical part?
E.g. what GIS tools did you use? Were all academic sources already in a GIS data format or did you have to create your own sources from text/ancient maps?
 
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Currently I'm applying for jobs in the GIS sector, so naturally I'm curious:

Can you expand on the technical part?
E.g. what GIS tools did you use? Were all academic sources already in a GIS data format or did you have to create your own sources from text/ancient maps?
For elevation and climate data, there are easily available 30-arcseconds maps, I'd be surprised if the historical borders existed in this format.
 
Not ATM, quoting Johan on this:
So relating to this, if at any point terrain changing is implemented, would that mean a proince can be converted to farmland? Or, if no terrain changing is implemented, will certain provinces that eventually become good farmland start as farmland even though that wouldnt be an accurate description of their state in the 14th century?

I’m mainly thinking of North America here, since aside from the Mississippi culture areas, what will become farmland later isnt exactly in use in the 14th century.
 
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My expertise is more in Antiquity, but dates are/were a very important fruit in the Middle East . In Ancient Egypt they were a very important food for soldiers, since when dried, they can last for a very long time. So I assume that would be the same during EU4's timeframe, but I couldn't find a source about that on the fly. At the very least it would still be a very important food source.
It's also culturally significant for the ramadan. But it's still a fruit that serves no other purpose than to be eaten (contrary to olives), and I'm not aware of them migrating like potatoes did^^

Interesting take, the preservation aspect: imagine if army logistics require not only food, but preserved food o_O
 
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I think we need Tinto Interfaces sheduled for Mondays, because they seem to be one of aspects that players would like to give feedback on the most.
I also suggest Tinto Armies and Tinto Flavours scheduled for Tuesdays and Thursdays respectively as they seem to be quite controversial and important topics for many players.
Just in case you work at weekends we could get Tinto Summaries on Saturdays to mention most important things you showed through entire week for people who don't have time to read all the Tinto Entries.
 
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The low countries map looks great!

However I do have some suggestions on tags and provinces I'd like to see added:
1. County of Zutphen
The county of Zutphen is a personal union of Gueldres in the eastern provinces of Zutphen and Doetinchem. It is in a similar situation to Zeeland at the startdate with the only major differences being that Zutphen is twice as big in provinces and Zeeland is included in this map whilst Zutphen isn't.
2. Groningen
As early as 1227 there was a conflict between Utrecht and Groningen on the topic of who controlled Groningen. The result of this debacle differed wildly from time to time, with Utrecht occasionally reconquering the city and Groningen regaining independence afterwards. Anyways, in neither cases it is a part of Frisia, as seen in this map. I'd argue a better way to represent them would be to cut the access of the province of Groningen to the sea and to add a Groningen tag, either as vassal of, independent or directly owned by Utrecht.
3. Lordship of Mechelen
Like Groningen, Mechelen was a small citystate located in its namesake province. Also like Groningen, it is in a confusing state of whether it is Flemish or independent. See in 1333 Liege gave the city to the county of Flanders, but the Flemish did not manage to fully assert their control there. In either case, in the screenshots it is owned by Brabant, which it shouldnt be.

Those were my few nitpicks with the map, either way, it looks great currently! Cannot wait to see more of the globe.
 
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oh, and, since there's no slaves-producing locations, will slave trade be done through pops mechanics?
My guess would be that Slaves are "produced" through building some kind of slave harbour/factory or similar, with the introduction of pop mechanics it might also not make sense to have slaves as a trade good. I'm sure we'll get an entire diary about the slave trade at some point, as it is a sensitive topic, but very important.
 
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Another detail, the village of Lommel was part of Brabant till the late 1830s, so the northern location of "west limburg" shouldn't be named after it. (Local knowledge, also Dutch wiki https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lommel?wprov=sfla1) edit: "Peer" would be a better name

The split of limburg only happened at that time as well, is it really necessary to make it two provinces?
 
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Hi,

Can you put in Tilburg inbetween Turnhout, Breda, Eindhoven and 's-Hertogenbosch? While at the start of the game it was just a few insignificant hamlets around 1600 it became the largest wool producing city of Brabant and during the 17th and 18th century grew into the primary wool producer of the entire Netherlands and if I see correctly there's no wool in Brabant yet. It's also in Crusader Kings 3 despite being totally insignificant during the period of that game :)
 
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