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Tinto Maps #22 - 11th of October 2024 - Mongolia, Manchuria and Eastern Siberia

Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
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Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
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And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
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Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
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Provinces
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Areas
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Terrain
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The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
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Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
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Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
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Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
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First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
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The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
 
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Let me reiterate again. About the harbour map mode, I kept thinking how about making inland locations black in colour while bad harbour as white colour for clarity purpose? Cause I can't really see the location name in black, and a scale from green to white may be great for visual purpose.

Seriously everytime I saw the map I can't really see the names of the darken locations.
 
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Climate map for the year 1337 (the time after the medieval climatic optimum), 1685 (the time of the peak of the Little Ice Age), 1901 (the earliest modulated data).
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bonus:
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The results of H. H. Lamb's research. With my signatures for clarity of data with dates.
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The map is based on a mathematical study of temperature fluctuations in central England over the last millennium, conducted by H.H. Lamb. And also on modern climate maps of different years in accordance with the climate classification of Vladimir Köppen and Rudolf Geiger.

I drew the areas by eye so that they were similar in displacement by ~ 0.5 degrees (in accordance with the annual temperature). They are hyperbolized by another half degree in some places. But on the other hand, you will definitely want to fight for the fur provinces if you are a northern country. Otherwise, you will go broke on the purchase of this product.

Websites of online journals with research results:
https://www.britannica.com/event/Middle-Ages
https://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.ac.at/shifts.htm

In addition, I want to present you another map related to the previous one. I must say right away, it is still quite far from historicity.

In Russia, with the adoption of Orthodoxy, they began to fight against pagans. Slavic paganism will completely disappear by 1400. But historically, everything was a little more complicated. The fact is that Orthodoxy was mixed with paganism and separate areas of teaching appeared. It was something like heresy, but it had almost no effect on society, and the state accordingly turned a blind eye to it. However, with the onset of the little Ice Age and the problems associated with it... in general, people have become more fanatical. In Russia, the question arose about the unification of all teachings into one single religion. Patriarch Nikon's reforms were carried out. All those who did not accept it began to be called Old Believers and began to fight against them. This led the country to actually a small civil war.

In the game, this can be depicted as a separate religion and a catastrophe associated with it. Since it is not correct to call them Old Believers, I have depicted them on the map in the form of three groups. Pomorian Orthodoxy (Поморское Православие) is a special form of Orthodoxy that is practiced only by the Pomorian cultural group. Ancient Orthodoxy (Древлеправославие) is the areas where people most actively defended the old foundations. And the local form of Orthodoxy (Местная форма Православия) is mainly rural and forest areas, where there was no organized teaching, there was their own understanding of religion.

The situation in 1337 can be found out by studying the excavations and museums of cities, but there is no unified information throughout Russia yet. It can be said with certainty that most of the region had a local form of Orthodoxy at that time, which in the future will be considered heretical or apostasy. Organized Orthodoxy is actively spreading so far only in large cities, which are religious centers, and surrounding villages. In general, canonical Orthodoxy is still a minority. There is no information about the situation in the surrounding villages, most likely there is a mixed population.

Религия в русском регионе.png
 
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(Not sure if this is the right time for feedback for Hokkaido, but here it is anyways)

Why is there rice in Hokkaido? The Ainu were never rice farmers, and even when Hokkaido became increasingly settled by the Japanese underneath the Matsumae it was still imported from mainland Japan. Likewise the Ainu were hunters and not pastoralists. I feel like there should be more fur as well, that and fish/marine products were the main exports of Hokkaido during the Edo period.

“The Ainu are best known as hunters and fishermen, but they also possess a long history of agriculture separate from the Japanese. Chilly Hokkaido is generally not suitable for rice production. The ancestors of the Ainu instead learned to grow hardier crops between 700 and 1200 CE. Satsumon people are known to have planted millet, barley, wheat, flax, beans, and hemp. Their descendants on Hokkaido continued their farming tradition, growing everything but the rice they traded from the Japanese. Sakhalin Island, farther north, was less suited to agriculture.[1]”

“For centuries, the Ainu never needed to adopt a fully agrarian lifestyle. While rice and millet supported their diets, families also survived on fish, venison, and gathered foods. This changed with growing Japanese influence on Hokkaido. As fish and game disappeared, the Ainu relied more and more on their farms and trade with the Japanese. Laws from the Matsumae period first banned Ainu farms to encourage the continued trade of valuable animals. They later reversed the policy, forbidding hunting and fishing in the Ainu fashion. Today, many Ainu people are still farmers in Hokkaido.[5]“


(Sources on website)

“The men of a given kotan would hunt and fish in their area, chiefly bear and salmon, while the women farmed, mainly millet, beans, barley, wheat, sorghum, and vegetables. They would usually burn the field first, creating ash which served as fertilizer, and would then cultivate a given plot for a year or two before allowing that area to return to nature, and turning to a different plot of land to claim as theirs to cultivate for a period. Bows called ku and made of Japanese yew (Ainu: kuneni) were used along with poisoned arrows for hunting boar, bears, deer, and other animals.[4] The Ainu, especially in Sakhalin, also bred dogs, which they used for a variety of purposes, including as hunting companions, sled dogs, and for their fur/skins and their meat.

Ainu never engaged in rice cultivation traditionally, but purchased rice from the Japanese, who called themselves Wajin (和人), among other terms, to identify themselves in contrast to the Ainu Other. This term, wajin only first appears in extant texts in 1799, however, while the Ainu term shamo, used to refer to the Japanese, appears as early as 1467.[5]


(Sources on website)

Japanese traded with the Ainu mainly for fish, furs, hawks for hunting with, and the like, in exchange for Japanese goods including lacquerware, rice, saké, and swords and other metal tools. Some of the goods obtained from the Ainu, including dried abalone and sea cucumber, came to be regularly shipped down to Nagasaki as "Nagasaki tawaramono", where they would be traded for Chinese goods. The Ainu traded not only with the Japanese, but also with the Russians and various indigenous groups of northeast Asia (e.g. the Uilta and Nivkh tribes), trading goods obtained from these mainland groups to the Japanese as well, though the volume of this trade is unknown.

Japanese merchant operations in Ezochi also focused on agriculture. The 18th century in Japan saw a great expansion in the growing of cash crops, including cotton, something which was implemented in Ezochi as well. A kind of fertilizer made from herring and called kinpi (金肥) was found to be quite effective, and herring-related operations expanded dramatically in the mid-1700s.


(Sources on website)
 
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The Daur People are the descendants of the Khitan and thus somewhat affiliated with the Liao.

Its 212 years apart but perfectly feasible that it would be in memeory so maybe give them the ability to restore the liao?

From Wiki

Genetically, the Daurs are descendants of the Khitan, as recent DNA analyses have proven.[5] In the Qianlong Emperor's "钦定《辽金元三史语解》" (Imperially commissioned Translations of the History of Liao, History of Jin and History of Yuan) he retranslates "大贺", a Khitan clan described in the History of Liao, as "达呼尔". That is the earliest theory that claims Daurs are descendants of Khitans.
That's unfortunately not in the current plans (for now).
 
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One thing I noticed looking at the raw materials is that Liaoning (I'm assuming it counts as part of Manchuria since it's shown here) has no iron. In modern China, it's the province with the largest iron ore reserves and this is where steel industries were established under Japanese occupation.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that there was any iron production there during the game's time period, and I can't say I'm an expert on the topic, so I guess I'm asking the thread if there are any source on iron production in the area during the time period?
It just looks weird to me that none of the locations in this iron rich part of Asia produce any iron.
 
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1. Yuan launched invasions to Sakhalin, and it managed to subjugate the tribes. How much "effective" control they had there is clearly debatable, like in many other areas of their territory, but they claimed it as belonging to themselves so we added as such, and the mechanics of the game will take care of the rest.
2. The location of Nurgan properly includes modern Tyr, so it's definitely in the right place, it's just that the locations here are so big that it reaches the coast.
3.Probably the Chuckchi were not considered suitable for a SoP at the moment, but we can take another look at them.
1. I know about the Yuan invasion of the island, and I understand why it's depicted the way it is - hopefully control mechanics can accurately reflect it, because they obviously didn't have the same level of control of Sakhalin as they did of their core lands. This may not be answerable, but can lands go from belonging to settled societies to uncolonized SoP-controlled locations? I think that's my concern with Sakhalin, because I'm not sure how else it can reflect it going back to fully indigenous control given that the Nivkh and Ainu are both SoPs.

2. I'll make a location splitting proposal later, I don't think Nurgan should be represented as coastal, but I do see how it fits onto the edges of the current location.

3. I understand the Chukchi not fulfilling the criteria, but I'm unsure how the Yukaghir and Koryaks do if the Chukchi don't. I think it's weirdly inconsistent to represent some nomadic Siberian hunter-gatherers as SoPs but not others. I'd prefer a more liberal definition that includes the Chukchi, but a more restrictive definition that excludes all of these hunter-gatherer groups would also be fine. My issue is that it seems inconsistent.
 
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By the way, what's up with some of these locations in Northern Siberia having 1500-3500 population? It has been estimated that a single hunter-gatherer in my home region of Eastern Finland required an area of around 25-100 square kilometers for hunting and fishing so these numbers feel too high, considering that the conditions are not any more hospitable here.

View attachment 1200528
It may be an error, it's something we will have to take a look at.
 
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Also, what is the greyish culture east of chukchi? I can't read it even in the zoomed map.

And also what cultural minority is the blue stripes in Jurchen?
 
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I believe the Mongolian (Khalkha) culture should spread a bit further East, to represent the Khorchins and Kharchins who inhabited that area.



Mongol tribes.png

Mongol_Empire_c.1207.png



 
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I believe the Mongolian culture should spread a bit further East, to represent the Khorchins and Kharchins who inhabited that area.



View attachment 1200567
View attachment 1200569





And I actually see the Kharchin down there in the south on the culture map. Are they the Kharchin Mongols or something else? If they are Mongols, I would also add Khorchins as a culture for that region. The Khorchins were the furthest East of all Mongol groups.

They were distinct from the Borjigin dominated central Mongolia, in that the Khorchins were descended from Qasar, the brother of Genghis Khan. (That's why I also distributed a few of them in Khorasan for my Persia map, due to Togha Temür being of Qasar's line).


 
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This looks like a very good week for the maps wish we could have more colonizable areas that we have to unlocked like with say Russia sends men out to colonize an area and they come from their manpower pool and the unlocked the province in 5 years
 
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What the hell man. This is so good. All you have to do is make it playable. I love you.
 
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It has been estimated that a single hunter-gatherer in my home region of Eastern Finland required an area of around 25-100 square kilometers for hunting and fishing so these numbers feel too high, considering that the conditions are not any more hospitable here.
My man is playing Paradox games in an Igloo
 
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