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Tinto Maps #22 - 11th of October 2024 - Mongolia, Manchuria and Eastern Siberia

Hello and welcome another week to the amazing world of Tinto Maps. This week we are covering a very wide area, as we will take a look at Mongolia, Manchuria and all Eastern Siberia. So, without much further ado, let’s get started.

Countries
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Here, clearly, the Yuán Dynasty of China controls much of the territory, while all of the Siberian expanses are “open” to colonization. Considering Manchuria, the Jurchen tribes posed a tricky question, as some of them were more settled and Chinese-influenced while others were more nomadic and pastoralist, and some were in between. Thus, we decided to represent the more settled tribes that would later confederate into the Manchu as separate countries vassals of Yuán, while there is also Jurchen population inside the borders of Yuán itself and the most nomadic of them represented as Society of Pops.

Societies of Pops
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And speaking of that, most of them are obviously concentrated in Manchuria and around the borders of the countries and coasts, while the more inhospitable places further into Siberia and Kamchatka are more sparsely populated and thus less organized.

Dynasties
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Nothing that wasn’t expected here, Borjigin dynasty keeps dominating another week. Concerning the Jurchen, currently none of them have scripted dynasties assigned and are generated instead.

Locations
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Provinces
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Areas
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Terrain
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The drier parts of the Gobi Desert in the Mongolian Plateau give way to the steppes and grasslands of Manchuria, while further into Siberia it gets dominated by mountains, hills, forests, and as one would expect from Siberia, cold.

Development
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Not much development in these parts either, and as I mentioned in last week’s Tinto Maps, the sudden change in development when entering China will have to be reviewed, as it’s currently too strong.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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Quite a varied cultural landscape, as these areas are populated by many different peoples, sometimes expanding through a wide area while others are more localized. On the other hand, the Mongolian Plateau is very much dominated by Mongolian culture.

Religions
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Very diverse religion distribution too, with Tengri, Shamanism, and local variations of it with Tungustic Shamanism (brown), Yukaghir Shamanism (light blue) and Chukchee Shamanism (purple). I have to say that we are currently going through a review of all the religions of the world defined as either “Animism” or “Shamanism”, so it is possible that there are some changes in this distribution in the future.

Raw Materials
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Very marked distribution of resources, with Mongolia and Manchuria rich in livestock and horses (as one would expect from the horse lords) while the forests of Siberia are full of fur and wild game and the northern coasts are a big source of ivory (from the world-famous arctic elephant herds, of course). However, the mountainous areas also include precious metals like gold and silver, so their colonization may thus prove quite beneficial. Another thing of note is that fish can be found abundantly not only along the coasts but also along the major rivers crossing Siberia.

Markets
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First of all, we have reverted back to the previous way of visualizing markets, as it was clear that the change we did to it was not in the good direction. We will keep testing and trying things, so this will probably not be the final view of it, but for now we reverted back to this version as we think it would be clearer to present. Having said that, these are areas with not much market presence, with the markets of Karakorum and Ilan Hala being the main ones, and the Chinese markets encroaching on the southern parts. Siberia doesn’t have any market of its own, so all of it has currently no access.

Population
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The only countries we have population to show here are the Jurchen ones, with the mighty Yuán ever encroaching on them. Concerning the populations of the locations, one thing I have to mention is that you will see many of them with the value of 150, that is the general default value that we used for the less populated areas of all eastern Siberia, where population estimates of the period don’t allow for much fine tuning. It is probably something that we will adjust.

And that is it for this week. Next week, after having been teasing it and slithering around its edges for a while now, it will be finally time to face the dragon, as we will showcase the entirety of China. Hope to see you all there, and as always very open (and grateful) to all your feedback.
 
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What is actually stopping Yuan or a breakaway Ming or other massive chinese stat when Yuan collapses from just colonizing all of siberia before russia even gets there? Pretty sure they have enough population to do so.
 
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Most provinces name is not used at that period. If the dynamic name is planed, the administrative name of Yuan dynasty can be referred.

For example, the Manchuria is called Liaoyang province, divided into seven Lu 路 and one Fu 府, according to Chinese wiki:

> In the sixth year of the Yuan Dynasty (1269), the Liaoyang and other places branch secretariat was established in Dongjing (now Liaoyang City, Liaoning Province), called Dongjing Province, and later moved its capital to Beijing. In the fifteenth year of the Yuan Dynasty (1278), it was changed to Xuanweisi. In the twenty-third year of the Yuan Dynasty (1286), Dongjing Province was re-established, but abolished in the same year. In the twenty-fourth year of the Yuan Dynasty (1287), Liaoyang Province was re-established, with its seat in Liaoyang Road, with seven roads under its jurisdiction: Liaoyang Road, Guangning Road, Daning Road, Shenyang Road, Kaiyuan Road, Shuidada Road, and one prefecture: Dongning Prefecture[1]. The Zhengdong Marshal's Office was established in the lower reaches of the Heilongjiang River.
 
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I noticed the yupighit on the corners of chuckchi peninsula and on attu island dont seem to have a religion, as it is a white color, is this a lack of a religion or is it just too small to see? If it is the latter, could you guys please zoom in so we can see it?
They have Yupik shamanism, it's just a color very similar to the background.
 
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Seconding this. I frankly hadn't even considered the possiblity that there -wouldn't- be content for that, it's so bizarre to imagine. Like, in current PC would Ming conquer China proper and then Yuan just sort of sticks around for eternity/until conquered? That'd be so strange.

Your tone is a bit harsh but I do agree that it'd probably be best to look at how the area was actually organized. Though I can sympathize with Tinto for wanting to have a lot playable Jurchen in the area.

I will also second the want for independent Fiefs in the Yuan. Should definitely be a thing, not having Fiefs would be a shame.
I'm sorry if it's offensive. But I didn't know Tinto would have such a strange approach, making such detailed and even tags in Tibet, while Manchuria piled up so many tags next to the Yalu River, and the reason was that they were more developed. However, according to the experience of the Ming Dynasty, the development level of these Jurchens may not be much better than that of the Jurchens in the north.
This is obviously a fatal Whig view of history, presupposing the situation based on the rise of the Later Jin three hundred years later (!), which is ridiculous.
 
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1. Yuan launched invasions to Sakhalin, and it managed to subjugate the tribes. How much "effective" control they had there is clearly debatable, like in many other areas of their territory, but they claimed it as belonging to themselves so we added as such, and the mechanics of the game will take care of the rest.
Wouldn't this mean that the areas around Lake Baikal should also be owned by Yuan, since the Buryats and other "forest people" were subjugated by them?
 
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What criteria is used to split cultures in Siberia? Because it seems done just by tribal groups which don't necessarily allineate with language, from "
Arctic Anthropology 1972: Vol 9 Issue 1 page 21":
1728658502176.png
 
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This is my work-in-progress mod, set in 1363, with the number of provinces in EUIV. I think the tags are closer to the current weird version.
If you're interested, I can translate this map into English for Tinto's reference.
1.png
 
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Hey guys, please change the names for the generated dynasties(ik that those will be changed, but when like a new dynasty pops up) of the jurchen nations so that they don't sound so blatantly like Korean names
 
Why are are Lamutk(Lamut? Another name for Even people) and Evenki on the map if the tribes that coalesced into these modern peoples are also represented?
 
Definitely a lot to process with this map! I believe that the Chukchi should be considered for an SoP, or at least the 'Maritime Chukchi' called Anqallyt.
Question, do you know when the Chukchi migrated to where they live? Because from an article I'm reading it's claimed they were an offshoot of the Koryak
 
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