Tinto Maps #4 - 31th of May 2024 - Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic

[illapa]

The Black Death not affecting Poland study is very contested in academia. There is evidence that directly contradicts it.

The study is based on grain pollen counts staying relatively similar and thus "proving" that there was no agricultural decline due to depopulation.

However there's plenty of other signs that do show the Black Death hit them. For example Poland shows a dramatic increase in wages (due to depopulation), and it shows a sharp rise in people living in smaller fortified towns (like other parts of Europe did) so that they could literally shut the doors during episodes of disease as if it was a siege.

So yeah this is one of the reasons why Wikipedia should not be treated as a 100% correct source. It's depicting this as definitive, but in reality it's contested.

 

[Dan29067]

There are decisions to change countries/cities/regions names. And "modern spellings" doesn't fit with historical accuracy, see Constantinople/Istanbul, and there are lots of examples like that. Kijow is fine as long as it's polish-lithuanian name of the city, Kiev should be non-polish name. There are dynamic names so that shouldn't be a problem to have multiple names for one city/region.

Name of the city in local dialects has always been Kyiv, it never changed. Ikavism, i e. names like Kyiv, Lviv, instead of Kiev, Lvov etc. was feauture of Ukrainian spoken language since Middle Ages ( as written old slavic letter ѣ transformed into "i") Of course you can have written names of cities in Church Slavonic but that needs to be consistent and would be the same as have all names of cities in western Europe in Latin. Not to mention it would be very confusing. So Kyiv for Ruthenian tag is ok, just like Kiev for Muscovite, Kijów for Polish, Kijevas for Lithuanian etc.

 

[Raczynski]

There is nothing wrong with the fact that this province is called Kielce, since it has been an important gord and later city since ancient (from Poland's perspective) times.

I think that was a joke post based on Kielce-Radom rivalry. Province of Kozienice should be renamed to Radom though.

 

[Eteor]

I think that entire south od Lesser Poland should be represented as "Górale" in culture group, maybe in todays world there is no much difference between Górale and normal Polish people's, but in the history there is definitely a difference. I'm not a historian but actually all my dad's family was "Górale Kliszczaccy" but there's a lot more types of Górale in the region such as "Górale Zagórzańscy" or "Górale Podhalańscy". Also there was and its still some coal around Myślenice, but it was never really mined on big scale so I think better representation will be Livestock because people's here mostly live from having sheep's and goat's. Last thing I'm not really sure about so maybe take it as question not really a sure thing but is Cracow ever mine salt? I was sure that it's always be only Wieliczka and Bochnia

Too small and insignificant to be worth the performance hit due to pop fragmentation. Górale were most likely polish lesser poland serfs influenced by Walachian nomad shephards. Hill dwelling was more challenging so they formed somewhat different regional culture that was mostly rural and not political.

 

[JuanPablo2]

By the start date both the loss of Silesia as well as loss of Pomerania with Gdańsk were fairly recent events. Casimir gave up claims to Silesia but it happened later on and Gdańsk was under teutonic occupation for not even full 30 years in 1337. Will there be any events/missions for Polish crown connected to regaining those lands?

 

[Aquila SPQR]

Warsaw deserves to be a location. I know it's a mere village in 1337, but it became the capital of the country halfway through the expected timespan of Project Caesar and is the capital today.

Many cities have both their own location and a province named after them. Warsaw should too.

I expect to have Czersk renamed to Warszawa once you form PLC and have the event about moving your capital there. Until that there's no need to have Warszawa, as it wasn't important at all. Czersk is fine.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

I think that was a joke post based on Kielce-Radom rivalry. Province of Kozienice should be renamed to Radom though.

Probably so xDDD. It's good that Łomża is not assigned to Podlasie

Kozienice province should be renamed into Radom province. Lipno and Wizna provinces also should be renamed (Lipno into Włocławek and Wizna into Łomża).

 

[HyperCopeEmia]

I see no real reason to seperate silisian and polsih cultures in the 14th century.

 

[SkiadrEU]

Hi. So glad I can finally see maps of my country . Love that we have amber as raw resource.

Few questions from me:
1. Shouldn't Kielce/Częstochowa and maybe some locations around them have hills terrain (due to Kraków-Częstochowa Upland/Małopolska Upland/Świętokrzyskie Mountains)? Making this a Flatland is a bit odd to me.
2. I also believe north/west area of modern Poland should have more marshes (for example Biebrza Marshes near Białystok). What are your thoughts on that?
3. Is Czersk location going to transform into Warsaw in the future?

 

[Stachwel]

By the start date both the loss of Silesia as well as loss of Pomerania with Gdańsk were fairly recent events. Casimir gave up claims to Silesia but it happened later on and Gdańsk was under teutonic occupation for not even full 30 years in 1337. Will there be any events/missions for Polish crown connected to regaining those lands?

I think you can see Polish claims on Pomerelia on the diplomatic map. Unfortunately, not for Silesia but maybe they'll change that

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

I expect to have Czersk renamed to Warszawa once you form PLC and have the event about moving your capital there. Until that there's no need to have Warszawa, as it wasn't important at all. Czersk is fine.

Czersk was a very important city - it was the seat of its own duchy of Czersk, and Warsaw was only a part of it. Although I think they could add a Warsaw location.

 

[Nnorm]

There is nothing wrong with the fact that this province is called Kielce, since it has been an important gord and later city since ancient (from Poland's perspective) times.

I disagree

 

[Tasmosunt]

There are decisions to change countries/cities/regions names. And "modern spellings" doesn't fit with historical accuracy, see Constantinople/Istanbul, and there are lots of examples like that. Kijow is fine as long as it's polish-lithuanian name of the city, Kiev should be non-polish name. There are dynamic names so that shouldn't be a problem to have multiple names for one city/region.

Kiev is a fairly modern English name for the city too. It's first recorded existence is in 1804.

If it does get called by it's Russian name, it should be properly Romanised as Kiyev.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

I disagree

Are you from Radom?

 

[mrflagio]

I'm probably not the 1th to point this out, but this thread says 31th of May,

 

[Keksburg]

It might be WIP thing considering that Ruthenian is the East Slavic part. That might be the reason why the cultural border is so sharp.

So sharp. It hurts. I feel pain.

 

[musMiro]

You should add raw material beekeeping. And its products, can be produced (wax, honey, mead). Wax and mead was main export of Lithuania.

Source: ChatGPT

Question:
beekeeping around year 1337 and wax, mead and honey in Baltic region. Name countries which exported most.

Answer:

Around the year 1337, the Baltic region was a significant center for the production and export of beeswax, honey, and mead. The countries in this region that were most prominent in beekeeping and the export of these products included:

Countries Exporting Beeswax, Honey, and Mead​

1. Poland:
   • Beeswax: Poland was a major exporter of beeswax, which was highly valued across Europe for making candles, particularly for religious ceremonies.
   • Honey: Polish honey was also well-regarded and exported, though it did not reach the same levels of prominence as beeswax.
   • Mead: Mead was widely consumed locally but also exported to neighboring regions.
2. Lithuania:
   • Beeswax: Lithuania, with its extensive forests and well-established beekeeping practices, was another key exporter of beeswax.
   • Honey: Lithuanian honey was exported, contributing to the trade economy.
   • Mead: Like in Poland, mead was primarily for local consumption but did find its way to other regions.
3. Latvia:
   • Beeswax: Latvia's beekeeping industry was also significant, and it exported beeswax, primarily through the port city of Riga, a major Hanseatic League hub.
   • Honey: Latvian honey was part of the trade, though not as extensively as beeswax.
   • Mead: Mead production was common, with some level of export, though it was mainly for local use.
4. Estonia:
   • Beeswax: Estonia, like its Baltic neighbors, exported beeswax, which was a valuable commodity.
   • Honey: Estonian honey was part of the regional trade network.
   • Mead: Mead was produced and consumed locally, with limited export.
5. Russia (Novgorod Republic):
   • Beeswax: The Novgorod Republic, covering parts of what is now northwestern Russia, was a significant producer and exporter of beeswax.
   • Honey: Honey from this region was also traded, adding to the variety of goods exported.
   • Mead: Mead was produced locally, with some trade to neighboring regions.

Trade Networks​

• Hanseatic League: The Hanseatic League was crucial in facilitating the trade of beeswax, honey, and mead from these regions. Major Hanseatic cities such as Lübeck, Riga, and Gdańsk were central to the distribution of these products across Europe.
• Trade Routes: Beeswax and honey from these countries were transported along established trade routes to markets in the Netherlands, England, Germany, and other parts of Europe.

Conclusion​

In the Baltic region around 1337, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and the Novgorod Republic were the primary countries involved in the export of beeswax, honey, and mead. Among these products, beeswax was the most significant export due to its high demand for candle making in religious and secular contexts. The Hanseatic League played a vital role in ensuring these products reached markets throughout Europe, integrating the Baltic economies into the broader medieval trade networks.

 

[Keksburg]

Jesteś z Radomia?

Better have translation attached, or a wandering ghost might give u a yellow card warning.

I mean the Moderators. xD

 

[Nnorm]

Jesteś z Radomia?

No idea, what makes you think that.

 

[Leoneq]

I'm glad you show the Góral presence in Nowy Sacz it's pretty neat you got the full map? Big fan of these about gorals. But even then Szczerez and mlynczynska aren't 'Goral' in the modern day depending who you ask, at least on etnozagroda . pl or the polish wiki page about them, on the polish wiki your map is an exaggeration if I understand it correctly that the 'coloured' is goral.
The pope claimed to be Góral when he's from Wadowice, nowhere near to what I'd call modern day 'Gorals' as the 'gwara' is simply dying out to the Polish language. When the game is set you didn't have schools forcing kids to speak in the 'standard' dialect so I'm sure the 'dialect' or 'culture' spread farther than the map you might be familiar with. Janosik was born somewhere in Slovakia where nobody today would claim to be Góral at least on maps and on the census you'll see 'Slovak'. But yet he was, at least I think.

It's fine either way they add the culture or not.

It is very hard to find new one, just try to google ethnogroups of Lesser Poland map i think you'll be able to find it