Tinto Maps #4 - 31th of May 2024 - Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic

[Pavía]

I only see "Silesian" culture, which I assume represents the slavic people living there, however during the game's timeframe the Silesian region was shaped by German Silesians just as much, will they be represented by their own culture this time or are they again abstractly represented by "Saxons" just like they used to be in EU4? German Silesians were mostly catholic settlers from southern Germany, so representing them as Saxons never felt right.

A little spoiler: there are Silesian (Slavic-speaking) and German Silesian (German-speaking) cultures.

 

[Pavía]

In a case where a post is very long, do you recommend to write it as a comment under the Tinto Maps thread or is it better to just post a new thread?

Here, easier for us to track.

 

[Pavía]

I think there should be some Germans in Slovakia as they had already arrived there during the "Ostsiedlung".
View attachment 1141200
Maybe they are there though and it just isn't shown. In that case I have to apologize.

There are; no worries.

 

[Pavía]

It's estimated to be 1.25M in the year 1340 for Kingdom of Poland and its vassals and 2.0M in the year 1370 for KoP + vassals + lands acquired by Casimir III the Great (Red Ruthenia, part of Volhynia and Podolia, and a small piece of land in the north-west).

For now I'll just paste some maps and tables below. Will turn it into a proper feedback, citing academic sources, once I'm back home and have access to books and maps.

Population density in 1340:

View attachment 1141192

Population in European countries:

View attachment 1141204

Population growth:

View attachment 1141205

Population dynamics in the main three Polish provinces (Wielkopolska/Greater Poland, Malopolska/Lesser Poland, Mazowsze/Mazovia) in 1340 and 1580.
It says the population was split as follows:
Greater Poland 560K + Lesser Poland 440K + Mazovia 250K = 1.25M

View attachment 1141206

Would you mind sharing from which sources these data come?

 

[SaintDaveUK]

back to isms are we

Assuming you mean "Catholicism" vs "Catholic" in the mapmode, we have changed it to the adjectival "Catholic". This screenshot was just taken on a version without all the changes.

The vassals seem to have a different color depending on their degree of autonomy, right ?

No the map color doesn't have any indication of autonomy. They are just different so you can tell the difference between them.

 

[Pavía]

What is amber for? Is it just a sort of luxury good? I'm not familiar with any production processes that use amber, but I'm not well-versed in pre-industrial economies.

It might be used in a building that @Johan might show in a Saturday Building.

 

[Pavía]

I have a question will we be able to rename locations and provinces, cuz sometimes I like to do more immersive games and rename everything like playing in Germany giving German names to stuff I conquer, or are they fixed and cannot be changed?

It is possible to rename locations in-game, yes.

 

[Pavía]

Is Kashubian separate culture from Polabian or have they been merged? If separate, I can send you list of Polabian localisation I did for some CK2 and CK3 mods few years ago.

Polabian is a different culture, yes.

 

[Pavía]

Hey PDX Tinto, loving the Map updates and the totally unknown game that they relate to.

Thought that, as we are now in a region that would employ it, how flexible will place names be. By this I mean what encoding will be allowed? Will more of unicode be allowed in this game?

So using ç, ñ, the thorn, æ, and others for example, as well as other, non Latin base, alphabets in the base English encoding?

Looking forward to seeing Italy next week, keep on with your impressive work .

The encoding of Project Caesar is very, very flexible.

 

[Pavía]

Is green stripes( up to Danzig) in the diplomacy mapmode a hint to upcoming war goals and peace deals system?

No, it's Polish cores.

 

[Pavía]

For the starting war is Poland or Tuetons the defender? Or is that redacted du ego war systems?

The Teutons are the attackers.

 

[Pavía]

Is this also when Switzerland and Tyrol will show up, or are they separate?

They will appear in the Tinto Maps for the HRE (excluding Italy and the western regions already shown).

 

[Pavía]

When Christianity was spread via sword to Estonia, Majority of Estonia was nominally Catholic, while Orthodoxy reached and took root in Setumaa (Neuhausen province, Northeastern part). Is that reflected within the pop menu for specified province?

I presume there is some sort of language groups (akin to Culture groups in EU4) when lookin the map I noticed that Livs have drastically different colour compared to Estonians, even though linguistically both are part of the Finnic language group. Is there any deeper meaning behind their colour difference?

As Health pointed out via redrawing the map, Weissenstein (Modern day: Paide) is improperly mapped. Danish king had never conquered the area, which Paide town occupied, during the years 1219 to 1346. Town itself was constructed first as a order's castle in 1265 by Livonian Order and area got its city rights by 1291.


Is there any plans to have Estonian Dynamic names around Estonia and perhaps even further. (For Izborsk dynamical to Petserimaa when under control by an country(ies) that is primary Estonian)

Culture colors are scripted, they're usually similar to country colors when possible.

It would be easier for us to add Estonian names if a list is provided here.

 

[Pavía]

Warsaw deserves to be a location. I know it's a mere village in 1337, but it became the capital of the country halfway through the expected timespan of Project Caesar and is the capital today.

Many cities have both their own location and a province named after them. Warsaw should too.

There will be an event for Warsaw.

 

[Pavía]

Will other Jewish cultures like the Romaniote or Italkim be represented too, or is it just the Sepharadim and Ashkenazim?

There are many Jewish cultures, yes.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Surely Johan or another Scandinavian can make sense of it if you don't have any Danes at Tinto

Oh, we have a Dane alright...

 

[Pavía]

How is it possible that the nothern provinces in Moldova have only 67 population?
View attachment 1141346

We're humans, make mistakes, and post them so you can find, and help us fix them.

 

[Pavía]

Will there be separate Tinto maps that will include for Kyivan/Chernihiv region? Or should I prepare some feedback now?

It's more useful for us if you prepare the feedback in this thread.

 

[Pavía]

1) The Present State and Prospects of Research on the Size of Poland’s Population in the Late Middle Ages and at the Beginning of Early Modern Times (in Polish).
2) Research into the Demographic History of Poland (in English).
3) The Population of Poland (in English).
4) The Historical Atlas of Poland, can't find it anywhere online, I have it at home, it looks like this.

Irena Gieysztorowa (Polish historian focusing on demography and cartography) claimed that in 1370 the area of Kingdom of Poland (marked below in red) was inhabited by 2M people with average density per square km of 8.3.
In 1340, she says, the population of Kingdom of Poland and its fiefs (i.e. without Ruthenian lands east of the green line below which were acquired later and probably without small acquisitions of Casimir III in Greater Poland and Kuyavia) was 1.25M (8.6/km2).

View attachment 1141689

The map of population density from source [4] (the same map, but with a worse quality and limited only to the Crown of Poland is available in source [3]):

View attachment 1141690

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[Pavía]

And did you think you would get away with these editing without anyone else noticing it? Naughty! Well, at least you did get caught here, so... busted! ;P

I was not even pretending to not get caught, it is a ver clear edit.