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Just one thing. There's no reason why dynasty names shouldn't be capitalised when beginning with Mac, in the same way they are with Ó.
Noted, it seems about 50:50 whether "mac" is shown upper or lowercase in articles about historical Gaelic people, so I went for the style which I think is a bit easier to read.
 
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The state of Britain....
(not the first time I've said that)



At this point I'm mostly looking for feedback on attributes of the locations more than shape or number of them.


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Has there been any work done on the natural harbours of the region? Besides that, the only feedback I have is that Exeter might be better as flatland, given that the core of the area all around the city itself is some of the flattest land in Devon.

Edit:
Actually, it doesn't make a huge difference, but the Dartmoor wasteland is quite weirdly shaped. The actual inhospitable part of the moor is further west than that, I'd suggest adjusting it so that it covers the two brown zones on this google maps image.View attachment 1299540
That places it here, and I can't see a good way to shift the locations around to make it interersting for gaemplay. I think I will delete it outright.
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I don't understand the point of Norse-Gael culture, what distinguishes it from Highland or Norn? Do they speak Norse? Why are they in Strathclyde?
Norse-Gael represents a continuum of Scandinavians who have been Gaelicised (they speak Irish and have adopted some Celtic manners). People such as Ostmen, Hebridians, Manx. And, in the south-west Scottish mainland, Galwegians. Mostly they don't have much association with Norway any more, but in this period they were still understood to be foreign settlers.

Norn are a different settler group of Scandinavians who have not been Gaelicised and still speak Norse languages. They also are generally more politically associated with Norway than Scotland or Ireland.
 
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Dave, who should I bribe to get the same flash-correction treatment for the 5-6 jarring location/province errors in Carpathia that have been pending for half a year but no dev dares to look into that abomination of a thread? They're really jarring and bothersome and would take like 10 minutes to correct
DM me your offer
 
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I have decided to put together a more coherent and organized set of raw material recommendations. I went on a bit of a journey in the original thread, so my recommendations were spread over 20+ posts. I tried to tie it together into one final post, but perhaps my recommendations were downgraded due to the disorganized presentation.

While double checking my recommendations, I came across the article "Silver Production and the Money Supply in England and Wales, 1086 - 1500".

Looking forward to your final recommendations. From a gameplay perspective my primary thoughts are to generally err to the side of Wool when there is a choice, as we want that to be the base industry for Britain. Also something we are missing is beeswax but I suppose its pretty hard to find that at a greater scale than cottage industry.
 
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A sketch of the marcher lordships if they were countries on the current map.
I don't think gameplay will support the intention very well without designing a IO or something, but thats a lot of effort so I can't guarantee this is the direction we will take for release. But it's a conversation starter at least.

A weird thing I notice here is how England, Wales, and Chester, essentially 3 countries representing crown interference, now exist in close proximity in several places. I'm leaning towards merging the Earldom of Chester into the Principality of Wales, maybe moving the capital of that to Chester.

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I was successful at finding a couple of articles that geographically show the wealth distribution. I'll show some results from the better of the two (it was a response to the first). The article is "The Geographical Wealth Distribution of England 1334 - 1649" by RS Schofield (https://www.jstor.org/stable/2592561?read-now=1&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents). It is behind a registration wall.

Here is a graph for 1341 wealth distribution (shading code is in the next image)

Here is a graph for 1515 wealth distribution.

Here is a table that includes the numerical ratings for both.
* - As referenced in the image, Kent is higher than is shown here because of the Cinque Ports. I found another article that rated Kent as the same as Gloucestershire for Lay wealth only (14th century data). So, I think it makes sense to add 3.5 points to the Kent scores for both Lay and Lay + Clerical for 1334. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to adjust the 1515 data set.

** - Oh, ignore the 2x in the column headers of the table. That was done to make the lay number and the clerical number compatible. One was based on income, while the other was based on movable goods, so an adjustment was done, which is the 2x shown.

*** - The graphs shown are the lay and clerical combined. My assumption was that Paradox did not break them out. I can present the lay graphs only, if people want to see those images.

Some Reflections:
1) Norfolk and the area around the Wash estuary was a wealthy area in the 14th century. That is not reflected in the Paradox map at the moment. That area jumped off the page as the most incorrect to me. It's supposed to be high, but instead is low.
2) I referenced Somerset above as a well off area. It looks like that was more of an early 16th century thing than a 14th century thing. In fairness, my sources were 16th century, so that actually kinda makes sense. :D
3) If you look at the numerical ratings, there are some really low ratings for the north and southwest in the 14th century. Lancashire, the North and West Riding, and Cornwall and Devon are all in single digits, which really stands out when most counties were at least double that. My guess is that if Northumberland was listed, it would also be in the same company. I'm less certain of Durham because of the prince bishopric thing, but it probably wasn't high. The hard part in figuring out where those ratings should be is that we don't have values for Wales/Scotland to compare against, but they seem a bit high to me at the moment.

I haven't gone through county by county, but those were the ones that jumped off the page to me. Norfolk/Wash area too low (by a lot), Cornwall/Devon/north too high (by a little).
Cheshire and Wales I understand, but why is Northumberland—Cumbria labelled as "not taxed" in this map?
 
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Population Corrections
@SaintDaveUK sorry for the Tag, just didnt want this to get lost in the thread. I transcribed and mapped Bruce M. S. Campbell and Lorraine Barry, 'The Population Geography of Great Britain C. 1290: A Provisional Reconstruction', in Population, Welfare and Economic Change in Britain 1290-1934, ed., Chris Briggs, P. M. Kitson, and S. J. Thompson (The Boydell Press, 2014) population estimates with a colour code for the biggest differences. Overall you overestimated England by 500K and there are some really notable differences between your populations. For Scotland you vastly underestimated Scotland's population by 300k. For Wales you are in the same ballpark its just that your diffusion of the population in South Wales is different, notably with Cardiff/Monmouth. For Ireland you are largely correct, its just that you have not represented the most populace urban locations well and I recommend a 40K adjustment to better reflect what we think the reality was.

You can just copy these population tables, but thats up to your team, I just wish some of the major differences were brought closer into line. Any questions feel free to ask! (psst: if you cant get access to the sources let me know and ill hook you up with some PDFs, shhhh)

Key for Differences
Anything around 7K or less is in white and is not worth to be changed
Anything around 10-15k is Yellow and should be corrected
Anything 20-30k is Orange and definitely should be corrected
Anything 40k+ is Red and is an abomination and should be shot
Yes that Key is completely arbitrary suck it up buttercup

PDX Counties to HistoricPDX POP1290 POP Historic CountiesPOP Adjustment
England
5,277,782
4,749,967
- 527,815
Northumberland (+Berwick)
174,235
117,599
- 56,636
Durham
87,360
64,512
- 22,848
Cumberland
74,900
54,554
- 20,346
Westmorland
37,866​
30,889​
- 6,977
Lancashire
101,286
67,809
- 33,477
North Riding
137,042
154,948
+ 17906,
East Riding
115,837
125,472
+ 9,635
West Riding
131,636​
139,683​
+ 8,047
Cheshire
62,701​
54,058​
- 8,643
Shropshire
146,408
106,841
- 39,567
Herefordshire
92,551
67,228
- 25,323
Worcestershire
74,504
58,583
- 15,921
Staffordshire
95,504
63,397
- 32,107
Derbyshire
119,170
84,148
- 35,022
Leicestershire (+Rutland)
102,189​
108,002​
+ 5,813
Warwickshire
138,134
92,295
- 45,839
Nottinghamshire
75,127​
79,883​
+ 4,756
Northamptonshire
127,761
144,407
+ 16,646
Lincolnshire
321,031
365,348
+ 44,317
Norfolk
369,000
435,343
+ 66,343
Suffolk
310,942
221,535
- 89,407
Essex
257,142
169,613
- 87,529
Cambridgeshire (+Hertfordshire & Huntingdonshire)
276,966
263,887
- 13,079
Middlesex
121,424
90,941
- 30,483
Kent
169,476​
176,701​
+ 7,225
Sussex (+Surrey)
213,630
198,242
- 15,388
Hampshire
101,735​
107,235​
+ 5,500
Bedfordshire (+ Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire & Berkshire)
505,288
311,406
- 193,882
Wiltshire
143,028
158,606
+ 15,578
Gloucestershire
136,218
152,841
+ 16,623
Somerset
155,718​
164,446​
+ 8,728
Dorset
95,453​
104,340​
+ 8,887
Devon
138,375
152,782
+ 14,407
Cornwall
68,145​
62,393​
- 5,752

Scotland
Important Note - I split the Dumfries Sheriffdom arbitrarily in half between Galloway/Teviotdale, a lot of discernment had to go into this table, but one thing is clear is that Scotland is vastly depopulated.
PDX Provinces to SherrifdomsPDX POP1290 POP Historic SheriffdomsPOP Adjustment
Scotland
427,292
750,000
+ 322,707
Galloway
56,529
90,622
+ 34,093
Teviotdale
62,073
101,186
+ 39,113
Lothian (-Berwick Location)
43,055
105,445
+ 62,390
Strathclyde
68,774​
76,945​
+ 8,171
Perthshire
28,097
87,040
+ 58,943
Fife
11,774
57,203
+ 45,429
Angus
23,547
66,103
+ 42,556
Aberdeenshire
27,307
63,030
+ 35,723
Moray, Ross, Sutherland, Outer Hebrides
67,300
54,816
- 12,484
Argyll & Inner Hebrides ( - Mann)
38,836​
47,610​
+ 8,774
Wales
PDX Locations to DeaconsPDX POP1290 POP Historic DeaconsPOP Adjustment
Wales
283,821
300,054
+ 16,233
Anglesey
16,026​
11,983​
- 4,043
Carnarvon
13,223​
13,355​
+ 132
Conway & Wrexham
45,061​
43,497​
- 1,564
Harlech
13,402​
13,973​
+ 571
Montgomery
6,087
29,173
+ 23,086
Radnor, Brecknock & Caerphilly
20,476
33,339
+ 12,863
Fighguard, Cardigan, Aberystwyth
37,446
17,613
- 19,833
Pembroke
33,927
48,946
+ 15,019
Carmarthen & Swansea
32,945
20,088
- 12,857
Cardiff
54,101
29,994
- 24,107
Monmouth
11,127
38,093
+ 26,966
Ireland
I got 904,344, but there is a chance I missed a few locations off. This is roughly correct most academics agree with this assessment of 750-900k, a few say 650k some say just about 1M. But just shy makes sense as there was a dip in population dude to war, famine and disease before the black death arrived.

We know upwards of half the population lived in the Lordship of Ireland (under England). I am interpreting this to mean The Pale + Kildare + Ormond and for this to be around 40%. I calculate these have 339,610 which is around 37.5%. So fairly accurate and the only changes I request is that we know New Ross and Wexford were in the top 5 biggest settlements (New Ross was actually bigger than Wexford and Waterford before the Black Death). We also know Cork and
Béal Feirste (Belfast), were not nearly that populace. Belfast and Ulster/Tyrone as a whole were probably the least populated parts of the Ireland. Carrickfergus was probably bigger than Belfast in this time period.

Remove about 40K from these locations - Cork, Galway, Béal Feirste, Downpatrick, Uíbh Eachach (8K each), and add 20K each to Wexford and New Ross. That would make your population map of Ireland accurately reflect the urban settlements and bring you to 41.9% living in the Lordship which is accurate.

Basis of my analysis for Ireland
- R. E. Glasscock, 'Land and People, C. 1300', in A New History of Ireland: Volume II, Medieval Ireland 1169-1534, ed., Art Cosgrove (Oxford University Press 2008)
- Kevin Down, 'Colonial Society and Economy', in A New History of Ireland: Volume II, Medieval Ireland 1169-1534, ed., Art Cosgrove (Oxford University Press 2008)

Population Maps

A sketch of reworked population based largely on @Vispian 's posts in the previous thread, thoughts?

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@SaintDaveUK
I noticed the topographic classification is still largely unchanged in the 3d map video. Are topography changes still in the pipeline somewhere?
If not, I'd like to reiterate that the designations for hills in the region are way too harsh when compared to how the rest of the map was handled.
Everywhere else the rolling hills are designated as flatlands.

This current harsher designation of the British Isles would be an arbitrary nerf, due to the more subjective interpretation of geography (considering the proximity impact, negative modifers,...). No way that these following modifiers should be active in what amounts to almost 50% of the region:
View attachment 1335357

That and a whole other range of remarks I made in my previous comment here:


3D mapCurrent topographyTerrain Ruggedness IndexSuggested TopographyChangelog of suggestions
View attachment 1335355
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now looks a bit more like your suggestion
 
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View attachment 1337177View attachment 1337178

Comparing against IR I think the textures/aesthetics maybe for hills look better there but what I didn't notice at first was the lack of rivers until I looked at the imperator version. With only the Shannon visible but none of the other rivers, will they be added? maybe its much of an ask but seems a lot of loughs missing in Fermanagh as well.
We restricted the rivers globally to ones that meet a certain threshold of width and length. The original design included rivers like the Liffey but with that threshold basically every location in Europe and Asia had a river which removed all the significance of the mechanic.
 
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