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Tinto Maps #8 - 28th of June 2024 - Russia

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps! This week we’ll be taking a look at Russia!

As an introductory note, we’re just considering today the ‘Russian core’, which in 1337 comprised the different Russian Principalities, as far as the White Sea to the north, and the Ural Mountains to the east. The lands that would later be incorporated into the Russian Empire will be covered in future Tinto Maps (otherwise, we would have to cover like… 1/8th? of the land mass in just one DD).

Countries
Countries.png

Russia is divided into several Principalities in 1337. The dominant one probably is Muscovy, as its Grand Prince, Ivan I Danilovich ‘Kalita’ (‘Moneybag’) is also Prince of Nizhny Novgorod and Kostroma, and of Novgorod (by election, in this case). He also holds the title of Grand Prince of Vladimir, bestowed by the Khan of the Golden Horde, which makes him the ruler enforcing the ‘Tatar Yoke’ over other Russian Principalities (which in our game is represented through an IO; the coloring of the different countries is different tones of yellow as they are tributaries of the Yoke). The other main power in the region is the Grand Republic of Novgorod, with a completely different institutional structure, that allows them to pick their rulers. Their power comes from being the main trading power between the Baltic Sea and the Russian region, and it’s the overlord of two border countries, the Principality of Pskov, and the County of Oreshek, a buffer country in Karelia, as agreed with Sweden after a recent war. Several lands to the north and east are not owned by any country. As a final note, you may also see that Lithuania is the overlord of some of the principalities, some of them directly through Gediminid rulers (Polotsk or Vitebsk), while other over Rurikovich rulers (Smolensk or Rzhev).

Muscovy.png

Tatar Yoke.png

The starting diplomatic of Muscovy and the Tatar Yoke IO, for the sake of clarity.

Dynasties
Dynasties.png

Several branches of the House of Rurik rule over the Russian lands. Fun fact: we have 18 different branches portrayed in the game. The exceptions are a few principalities, and the ruler of Karelia, Prince Narimantas of the Lithuanian Gediminids. Also, the 'Cherdyn' and 'Vyatka' are randomly assigned dynasties, as we haven't been able to get the data for those countries on 1337.

Locations
Locations.png

We’re showing a less detailed region this week because, well, Russia is big. Feel free to ask for more detailed screenshots of specific areas, and I’ll try to provide them. We’re also showing some parts of the Steppe, Finland, and Kola, because of the scale of the map; take them as ‘unavoidable spoilers’, as we’ll talk more in-depth about them in future Tinto Maps.

Provinces
Provinces.png

The provinces of Russia. As usual, suggestions are welcomed!

Terrain
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain map modes. As discussed in previous Tinto Maps, we’ll read carefully your feedback, as we have plenty of room to polish them!

Cultures
Cultures.png

Cultures! As in other regions, we decided to have three different cultures in the Russian region, Novgorodian, Muscovite, and Severian. The design here is different than in the Ruthenian region, because Russia was more politically divided in the High Middle Ages, and would later be more culturally unified later on, while in Ruthenia, the situation would be the opposite. In any case, the four of them are East Slavic cultures, and we're open to feedback, of course. Apart from that, there are a bunch of different cultures bordering the region: Karelian, Pomor, Komi, Udmurt, etc. We might add some more minorities of these cultures, in the feedback pass after this DD. Also, take into account that the minorities over the Tatar lands (currently under the Kazani and Mishary cultures) are not yet done.

Religions
Religion.png

Eastern Orthodoxy is dominant in the region, although there are other religions in the area, as well; take ‘Animist’, ‘Tengrist’, and ‘Shamanist’ as wide categories, as we’d like to add a bit more granularity for them (although that will come later this year, don’t expect them to be added in the coming Tinto Maps, but maybe on the later ones). We’ve already seen some posts asking about Slavic Paganism; up until now, we’ve considered the Russian people to be Christianized, even if it was a more or less superficial process. If you’d like us to add this religion and some percentage of the population adhering to it, then I’d ask you for specific sources that could help us portray it (so, isolated references to it being followed here or there won’t be helpful, while academic sources saying ‘up to X% of the population was following Slavic rites’ might very much be).

Raw Materials
Raw Materials.png

Quite different resources to other regions previously shown, with plenty of Lumber, Fur, and Wild Game in this region. I’ve also extended a bit the screenshot to the east, so you can see the mineral richnesses of the Ural Mountains, with plenty of locations with Copper, Iron, Gold, and Lead, making it quite juicy to colonize.

Markets
Markets.png

The counter to the richness of the natural resources of the region is its integration into the different markets, which at the start of the game are centered around Novgorod, Moscow, and Kazan. Fully exploiting the economic possibilities of Russia will therefore require effort and patience.

Country and Location population
Country Population.png

Location Population SW.png

Location Population SE.png


Location Population NE.png

Location Population NW.png

Not many people inhabit the Russian core, approximately 6M in total. This poses a series of challenges regarding the expansion of any Russian country. Also, we've divided into 4 different maps of the location population of the region, to make it possible to visualize. A side note: you might note that the population of NW Novgorod and Karelia is calculated a bit differently. That's because Johan took care of drawing the Scandinavian map in an early stage of development, and the Content Design team took over the rest of Russia at a later stage when we had already refined a bit more our population calculation methods. This means that when we do the feedback pass after this Tinto Maps, in a few weeks, we'll homogenize the style, as well.

And this is all for today! We hope that you’ll find it interesting, and give us great feedback! Next week we’re traveling to Carpathia and the Balkans! See you!
 
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It alarms me that this map has highly wrong culture/language markings. Moksha in Novgorod, Merya in Yaroslavl. That is not 1374. And the division of Slavic people into Baltorussian and Ukr (Ukrian?) is outlandish.
This is the alleged source:
The text claims it's "their" map and says that Tikhomirov in particular has made quite a few "mistakes", which is why some towns are in alternative locations.
Oh, and the dioceses' borders are "approximate", ackshually. :)
 
I was just reviewing Colin McEvedy economic maps of Europe in 1346, and he has the only town large enough to fit his scale (15k+ population) in Russia being Novgorod. Of course 15k is the population of the town not the whole location.

Is it worth reviewing your populations of Novgorod (up), Moscow and surrounds (down) and Nizhny Novgorod (down) to make them internally consistent? Or is there a different source which compares those three and comes up with alternate results of the relative sizes?
 
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ok here my my suggestions for Ingria,Vytegra and Pudoga
1. Liissilä as it was misplaced
2.Yarvosol(from the census book of the Vodskaya Pyatina)
3.Tosno(from the census book of the Vodskaya Pyatina)
4.Ust'e(from cadastre books of the Izhora Land)
5.Opol'e(from the census book of the Vodskaya Pyatina)
6.Lebyazhye(the Patrol Book of the Vodskaya Pyatina of the Korelskaya Half of 1612)
7.Shalskiy(Obvodnaya Book of the Yuryev Monastery)
8.Gakugsa(after the river but wikipedia says the village was mentioned in 1563)
9.Otovzha(after the river)
10.Vodla(after the river)
11.Andoma(after the river)
12.Kovzhskoye(after the lake)
also if you could would be nice adding the small islands in the gulf of finland like Kotlin for example
karelingriaedit.png
 
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It's a map of orthodox dioceses (that's what the title says). That's why bits of Estonia and Latvia under Livonian rule are coloured.
It alarms me that this map has highly wrong culture/language markings. Moksha in Novgorod, Merya in Yaroslavl. That is not 1374. And the division of Slavic people into Baltorussian and Ukr (Ukrian?) is outlandish.
This is the alleged source:
The text claims it's "their" map and says that Tikhomirov in particular has made quite a few "mistakes", which is why some towns are in alternative locations.
Oh, and the dioceses' borders are "approximate", ackshually. :)

Thank you. I didn't notice that it is way more controversial. I decided to edit my previous post and make it a spoiler.
 
Gonna post these here because I'm not sure if these should be in the Scandinavia or Russia thread.
White Sea Salt Production

One major thing I discovered that is not currently represented on the map is the important salt production industry on the coast of the White Sea in Karelia. According to Karjalan kansan historia (Heikki Kirkinen, 1995), salt production became a major industry in the area the 16th century, and became the largest source of wealth in the region. The salt was produced from sea water by boiling it inside large salt kettles. A salt brewery was known as a "varnitsa" to the Karelians and the word comes from Russian Варница. Varnitsas were most common in the area between Unezhma and Kem, but were also used a lot between Keret, Kovda, Kandalaksha and on the southern coast of Kola. At the peak of the industry, the Karelians had around 180 varnitsas and produced around 18 000 tonnes of salt per year. The German traveller Sigismund von Herberstein described how every winter the salt was brought to Novgorod using 2 000 horses.

Based on this, some coastal locations on White Karelia and Southern Kola should have salt as a raw material. I don't really know what the best way for determining the salt locations would be, but if we go by the density of varnitsas, the following map could be useful:
View attachment 1203953
Saltworks on the coast of Dvina Bay at the end of the 16th century. From Karjala idän ja lännen välissä (Heikki Kirkkinen, 1970).
- Black dots: Varnitsa in use
- White dots: Unused varnitsa

The biggest singular concentration of varnitsas was in Keret (Fin. Kieretti), but the southern coast had more in total. The village of Porjalahti stands out too. Depending on balance there could be more or less salt locations.

Salt production required a lot of iron, as the salt kettles had to be replaced annually. While Russia had many large centers of iron production, most of the iron was used by the core areas of Russia. Instead they used local Karelian iron. In Karjala idän ja lännen välissä Kirkkinen mentiones many places that were a source of iron, such as Aunus (Olonets), Suoju (Shuya), Kiisi, Megra, Vaasena (Vazhiny) and Oshta. However, the village of Sunku (Shunga) is mentioned as one of the most important sources of iron (and coal) in Karelia. In Karjalan kansan historia Kirkkinen says that the Zaonezhye peninsula, which Shunga is a part of, was an abundant source of iron. In the 17th century many large Russian, German and Dutch owned smelting plants were built on the peninsula. Based on this, perhaps it would make sense for Shunga (or the in-game location corresponding to it) to have iron as a raw material.
View attachment 1197709View attachment 1197710
Posting this here because from the Scandinavia update peeks we've seen it seems the former Karelian wasteland is being handled by Johan. From the steppes map it looks like Repola is currently misplaced. It should be moved down to near where Pienika (Seems to be a misspelling of Pieninkä) currently is.

Fulmen made an interesting post about historical borders in the region on the Russia thread. Before Sweden received the Kexholm County in the Treaty of Stolbovo the county's borders actually reached further north than after the treaty. While we both agreed in-game Kexholm borders should match the post Treaty of Stolbovo borders, it could add some flavor to represent the older border in the game, especially because it almost became part of the official border between Sweden and Russia.


Fulmen's map is just an approximation, so here's a map where I traced the two border rivers in more detail:
View attachment 1197712

Here's also a translation of the section "Riidan aiheet" from one of Fulmen's sources:
View attachment 1197715
"The village of Pälväjärvi has been brought to awareness by professor Arvi Korhonen in his book "Suomen itärajan syntyhistoria". In it he discusses the border dispute extensively and tells how the Russian border commission lived in the village of Pälväjärvi and the Swedish negotiators lived in the church village of Porajärvi. The negotiations were carried out on "no man's land" between the villages, near Valasmo ironworks.

The border negotiations took many years. Disputes occurred because they were unable to come to an agreement about the border of Kexholm County. Sweden annexed the aforementioned county into Finland in the treaty of Stolbovo. At the time the county was large. In addition to Viborg County it also encompassed modern North Karelia. [This might be an error by the author because the former Russian county of Kexholm did not include Viborg.] The Swedes had sufficient evidence that Porajärvi was part of Kexholm County, which includes:
- The land areas of Porajärvi and Repola were owned by the Valaam Monastary located in Kexholm County, which had received the areas as inheritance land.
- The inhabitants of Porajärvi paid their taxes, both by agreement and threat, to Kexholm County, specifically to the Valaam Monastery. This payment of taxes was also proven by the Russians' own tax records, which the Swedes had gotten from Novgorod.
- Additionally, the people of Suojärvi remembered Porajärvi being part of Kexholm County, as they testified: The old border ran, beginning from lake Unusjärvi in Suojärvi, along river Irstajoki near the village of Kostamus and from there to the river Suununjoki. The wheat lands of Suojärvi were situated on the side of Porajärvi near the village of Kostamus.

The Russians did not accept the evidence. They opposed very strongly making Suununjoki into a border river. The river would have been a "war road" to lake Onega and having it be the border would have also resulted in Repola being part of Finland.
"

The area south of the border would be quite wide, so the western side should be part of Repola (Russian: Ре́болы/Reboly, Karelian: Rebol’a) while the eastern side should probably be part of Porajärvi (Russian: Поросо́зеро/Porosozero, South Karelian: Porarvi). (I'm a bit unsure about Porajärvi because it seems that modern village (is mostly situated on the northern coast of Suunujoki. At the same time Fulmen's sources explicitly state that Porajärvi was part of Kexholm County and should've been given to Sweden in the Treaty of Stolbovo. Another, in my opinion less preferable, option would be Lentiera (Russian: Ле́ндеры/Lendery, Karelian: Lentiera), which was first mentioned in 1611, but is so close to Repola that the Repola location could end up being too small.
View attachment 1197727
 
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I agree. Ostrov indeed looks a bit wild. I also noticed that Pskov location was way too big. Based on your suggestion and my own observations, I decided to make the following changes:

View attachment 1196152View attachment 1196153View attachment 1196154

I decided to base new location on Volodimerets castle and settlement (and not Slavkovitchi that devs used), because it was to my knowledge most notable castle and settlement in that region. Based on archeological findings it is known that the settlement was there already during the 13th century. Legend says that this place was named after a king of Kievan Rus called Vladimir the Great, who christianized the Rus. First chronicle mention of Volodimerets is from 1462. Germans at that time knew it as Wolmar. Nowadays this place is more known as Vladimirets. At the same time, the earliest mention I found about Slavkovitchi is from early 19th century and even without it, it seems to have way less historic importance than for example Volodimerets.

I decided to extend my original Pskov borders a bit more east so that the namesake "Volodimerets" settlement would be inside my Pskov borders.

---

Also, thanks for pointing out that Dubronjo (or how ever else you spell it) is probably meant to be Dubrovno. Just to clarify, my questionmark was more meant to show my uncertainty over "what does that settlement name stand for" rather than "is it in Pskov or Novgorod".

PSK3(2).png
PSK4(2).png
PSK5(2).png


I have done a bit more research and I found out that until 1406 the main center of the region was Kolozhe (and not Opochka). Lithuanians raided it and it's inhabitants were forcefully moved to Grodno (modern-day Belarus). It is estimated in Brockhaus and Efron Encyclopedic Dictionary that 11,000 people (mostly from Kolozhe) were forced to move. Afterwards 1414 New Kolozhe was built. Many historians think that this New Kolozhe became later known as Opochka and because of that this date is used as the date when the first mention of Opochka took place. There is also a decenting opinion that it (New Kolozhe) was built instead east from Kolozhe and Opochka is a different fort/town altogether.

Kolozhe was also known as Kolozha and Kolozho.
 
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As I understand there was no type of vassalage between the Horde and Novgorod. Novgorod was only paying tribute, and had active pro-Horde politic.
Novgorod paid tribute - that means it was a vassal.
Plus, with all the elements of oligarchy, Novgorod always remained a Principality.
and usually the Grand Duke of Vladimir was the prince there.
in 1337 this title belonged to Moscow, and Moscow would soon force the Novgorodians to accept the Ruler of Moscow as the prince.

Of the Russian principalities, only Smolensk once opposed the Horde with the support of Lithuania, and the Vladimirites and the Horde besieged it, but unsuccessfully.


Vassals paid tribute.
Another point is that the Mongols did not interfere in Novgorod affairs, because they were far away.
and in case of problems, the princes of Vladimir brought order there.

But I repeat, everyone was a vassal.
Even Lithuania paid tribute to the Horde from those Russian lands that were captured by it, as their new owner, if the previous rulers paid tribute.
 
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Novgorod paid tribute - that means it was a vassal.
Plus, with all the elements of oligarchy, Novgorod always remained a Principality.
and usually the Grand Duke of Vladimir was the prince there.
in 1337 this title belonged to Moscow, and Moscow would soon force the Novgorodians to accept the Ruler of Moscow as the prince.

Of the Russian principalities, only Smolensk once opposed the Horde with the support of Lithuania, and the Vladimirites and the Horde besieged it, but unsuccessfully.


Vassals paid tribute.
Another point is that the Mongols did not interfere in Novgorod affairs, because they were far away.
and in case of problems, the princes of Vladimir brought order there.

But I repeat, everyone was a vassal.
Even Lithuania paid tribute to the Horde from those Russian lands that were captured by it, as their new owner, if the previous rulers paid tribute.
Lithuania was not a vassal but paid the tribute. Novgorod is the same. It’s ether making everyone a vassal or no one tbh.

But I believe vassal status had more control. Golden Horde had intervened in affairs of Moscow, Nizhnii Novgorod, Kyiv. The Horde had participated in pretender revolts and feuds. But not in Novgorod or Lithuania. So I think it is better to portray it with tribute/reparations for no aggression.

To reiterate, Horde has never captured the city of Novgorod, so there was never any subjugation.
 
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Lithuania was not a vassal but paid the tribute. Novgorod is the same. It’s ether making everyone a vassal or no one tbh.

But I believe vassal status had more control. Golden Horde had intervened in affairs of Moscow, Nizhnii Novgorod, Kyiv. The Horde had participated in pretender revolts and feuds. But not in Novgorod or Lithuania. So I think it is better to portray it with tribute/reparations for no aggression.

To reiterate, Horde has never captured the city of Novgorod, so there was never any subjugation.
in the 1260-1270s there were Lithuanian-Horde treaties, which, according to the reservations, can be interpreted as recognition of the Horde seniority.

But there was nothing about paying tribute.
In the 14th-15th centuries, Lithuania paid an exit for the Russian lands it had captured, and not for Lithuanian lands proper.
This is the defining nuance.

Novgorod has never been on its own.

In the 12th-13th centuries, the Novgorod throne was a stake in the game between the Suzdal-Vladimir and Smolensk branches of the Rurik clan.

After the Mongols, it was tied to northeastern Rus'.
Attempts at rebellion against the Mongols there were suppressed by Alexander Yaroslavich, in order to avoid interference from the Mongols proper.

Novgorod accepted the Horde census.

The fact that Novgorod was a remote vassal and the Horde did not interfere directly in its affairs does not cancel its vassal status.

Novgorod was not politically independent. In the Novgorod Chronicles, the Khan of the Horde is the Tsar, as in the Vladimir Chronicles.
Supreme overlord.

The Horde did not capture the city of Smolensk, and did not capture the city of Galich. But both Smolensk and Galich were vassals of the Horde.

The system of governance of the vassal Russian principalities was based on pre-Mongol principles.
The Horde were conservatives.
Prince Yaroslav of Vladimir and his son Alexander were the last titular princes of All Rus'.
Novgorod in 1237 was in fact a Vladimir protectorate. Princes from Vladimir sat there 70% of the time.
Vladimir controlled the supply of food to Novgorod. For Alexander's descendants, the size of the Rus' under their control was reduced to the Principality of Vladimir + Novgorod (where they ruled traditionally).
Novgorod no longer invited princes from Smolensk. All Novgorod princes were now from Vladimir.
If Novgorod invited from outside, the Vladimir princes (be they from Moscow or Tver) stopped it by force.

I understand the motive to present Novgorod as some kind of independent force.
But Novgorod was not.
In political terms, it conducted an independent policy with the Swedes and Livonians.
but in the Plan of military and food security - it was an appendage of the Vladimir Principality.
And the Horde delegated the collection of tribute from Novgorod to the Vladimir Principality, for subsequent sending to the Horde.

There were no Baskaks in Novgorod - not an argument. In principle, there were almost none in north-eastern Rus'. Uprisings against the Baskaks and remoteness contributed to this.
 
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what is much more interesting here is that in 1337 Smolensk could have paid tribute to the Horde.

In 1340, the Tatars + vassals from the Vladimir Grand Duchy, the Ryazan Grand Duchy, + the Drutsk Principality (Belarus) besieged Smolensk. but were unable to take it.

Smolensk was in a situational alliance with Lithuania.
Later, Lithuania took Mstislavl from the Smolensk Principality, and Smolensk went into an alliance with Moscow.
 
I should've mentioned this in my original feedback post, this map from this paper of historical 15th century pogosts also has some good location names for the area of Pudoga and Vydegra, as currently the two locations are very big. (The non-Cyrillic are the Finnish names and not romanizations.)
1731523279745.png
 
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Revised culture suggestions. The lighter dash means minority.
Dark Green - Bjarmian (Zavolochye Chud' and other non-Permic Finno-Ugrians of Pinega and lower Dvina)
Lime Green - Novgorodian (the other Novgorodian areas are unchanged)
Purple - Muscovite (Same thing here)
Dark Blue - Meryan
Blue - Mari
Red - Udmurt
Orange - Komi
Yellow - Magyar/Chiyalik

The map is a frankenstein of TM8 and TM20 locations because I wanted to include all Magyar locations and they are the most relevant to this TM.
1731954060009.png


Now at the time of this map we didn't yet know about Society of Pops as a thing, so I'd like to include some here. White labels denote a society of pops, black labels a normal country tag.
1731957953014.png
 
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Bulgaria maps
the second map is already the start period of the game.
the possessions of the Nizhny Novgorod principality need to be adjusted)
 

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