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Tinto Maps #8 - 28th of June 2024 - Russia

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps! This week we’ll be taking a look at Russia!

As an introductory note, we’re just considering today the ‘Russian core’, which in 1337 comprised the different Russian Principalities, as far as the White Sea to the north, and the Ural Mountains to the east. The lands that would later be incorporated into the Russian Empire will be covered in future Tinto Maps (otherwise, we would have to cover like… 1/8th? of the land mass in just one DD).

Countries
Countries.png

Russia is divided into several Principalities in 1337. The dominant one probably is Muscovy, as its Grand Prince, Ivan I Danilovich ‘Kalita’ (‘Moneybag’) is also Prince of Nizhny Novgorod and Kostroma, and of Novgorod (by election, in this case). He also holds the title of Grand Prince of Vladimir, bestowed by the Khan of the Golden Horde, which makes him the ruler enforcing the ‘Tatar Yoke’ over other Russian Principalities (which in our game is represented through an IO; the coloring of the different countries is different tones of yellow as they are tributaries of the Yoke). The other main power in the region is the Grand Republic of Novgorod, with a completely different institutional structure, that allows them to pick their rulers. Their power comes from being the main trading power between the Baltic Sea and the Russian region, and it’s the overlord of two border countries, the Principality of Pskov, and the County of Oreshek, a buffer country in Karelia, as agreed with Sweden after a recent war. Several lands to the north and east are not owned by any country. As a final note, you may also see that Lithuania is the overlord of some of the principalities, some of them directly through Gediminid rulers (Polotsk or Vitebsk), while other over Rurikovich rulers (Smolensk or Rzhev).

Muscovy.png

Tatar Yoke.png

The starting diplomatic of Muscovy and the Tatar Yoke IO, for the sake of clarity.

Dynasties
Dynasties.png

Several branches of the House of Rurik rule over the Russian lands. Fun fact: we have 18 different branches portrayed in the game. The exceptions are a few principalities, and the ruler of Karelia, Prince Narimantas of the Lithuanian Gediminids. Also, the 'Cherdyn' and 'Vyatka' are randomly assigned dynasties, as we haven't been able to get the data for those countries on 1337.

Locations
Locations.png

We’re showing a less detailed region this week because, well, Russia is big. Feel free to ask for more detailed screenshots of specific areas, and I’ll try to provide them. We’re also showing some parts of the Steppe, Finland, and Kola, because of the scale of the map; take them as ‘unavoidable spoilers’, as we’ll talk more in-depth about them in future Tinto Maps.

Provinces
Provinces.png

The provinces of Russia. As usual, suggestions are welcomed!

Terrain
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain map modes. As discussed in previous Tinto Maps, we’ll read carefully your feedback, as we have plenty of room to polish them!

Cultures
Cultures.png

Cultures! As in other regions, we decided to have three different cultures in the Russian region, Novgorodian, Muscovite, and Severian. The design here is different than in the Ruthenian region, because Russia was more politically divided in the High Middle Ages, and would later be more culturally unified later on, while in Ruthenia, the situation would be the opposite. In any case, the four of them are East Slavic cultures, and we're open to feedback, of course. Apart from that, there are a bunch of different cultures bordering the region: Karelian, Pomor, Komi, Udmurt, etc. We might add some more minorities of these cultures, in the feedback pass after this DD. Also, take into account that the minorities over the Tatar lands (currently under the Kazani and Mishary cultures) are not yet done.

Religions
Religion.png

Eastern Orthodoxy is dominant in the region, although there are other religions in the area, as well; take ‘Animist’, ‘Tengrist’, and ‘Shamanist’ as wide categories, as we’d like to add a bit more granularity for them (although that will come later this year, don’t expect them to be added in the coming Tinto Maps, but maybe on the later ones). We’ve already seen some posts asking about Slavic Paganism; up until now, we’ve considered the Russian people to be Christianized, even if it was a more or less superficial process. If you’d like us to add this religion and some percentage of the population adhering to it, then I’d ask you for specific sources that could help us portray it (so, isolated references to it being followed here or there won’t be helpful, while academic sources saying ‘up to X% of the population was following Slavic rites’ might very much be).

Raw Materials
Raw Materials.png

Quite different resources to other regions previously shown, with plenty of Lumber, Fur, and Wild Game in this region. I’ve also extended a bit the screenshot to the east, so you can see the mineral richnesses of the Ural Mountains, with plenty of locations with Copper, Iron, Gold, and Lead, making it quite juicy to colonize.

Markets
Markets.png

The counter to the richness of the natural resources of the region is its integration into the different markets, which at the start of the game are centered around Novgorod, Moscow, and Kazan. Fully exploiting the economic possibilities of Russia will therefore require effort and patience.

Country and Location population
Country Population.png

Location Population SW.png

Location Population SE.png


Location Population NE.png

Location Population NW.png

Not many people inhabit the Russian core, approximately 6M in total. This poses a series of challenges regarding the expansion of any Russian country. Also, we've divided into 4 different maps of the location population of the region, to make it possible to visualize. A side note: you might note that the population of NW Novgorod and Karelia is calculated a bit differently. That's because Johan took care of drawing the Scandinavian map in an early stage of development, and the Content Design team took over the rest of Russia at a later stage when we had already refined a bit more our population calculation methods. This means that when we do the feedback pass after this Tinto Maps, in a few weeks, we'll homogenize the style, as well.

And this is all for today! We hope that you’ll find it interesting, and give us great feedback! Next week we’re traveling to Carpathia and the Balkans! See you!
 
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added more locations for Novgorod, real life placement is a bit off tho
1. Gorodets pod Lugoy
2. Lyuban
3. Bronnitsa
4. Valday
5. Pchevzha(after the river)
6. Nebolchi
7. Lyubytino
8. Zaplyusye
9. Bulynino
10. Miritinitsy
11. Rzheva
12. Pribuzh(should belong to Novgorod)

novg location.png
 
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As administrative divisions of the Russian Tsardom were way too large for general area size in the game I propose usage of Imperial Russian borders for areas.
1727695691403.jpeg

1727695606511.jpeg

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1727695626600.jpeg
 
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While Moscow had the siege of Moscow in 1238, where it was described as nothing more than `At the time Moscow was but a fortified village, a trading post "on a crossroads of four rivers"`.
And after that, the Moscow principality enriched and expanded its influence, which probably led to the rapid growth of the capital.
 
And after that, the Moscow principality enriched and expanded its influence, which probably led to the rapid growth of the capital.
I'm pretty sure the prince of Moscow at this start date is literally nicknamed "Moneybags".

Notably, this implies what you said is true, but also implies that it's something happening right when the game starts rather than something that happened already. So, if we're talking development, Moscow should be in the middle of enriching itself rather than already being well-off.

Rather, what boosted Moscow's population so much at this time was, in fact, the Mongol Yoke. It wasn't being raided, because it was surrounded by other territories that were taking the brunt of the raids. This, naturally, meant that those in, say, Ryazan, were fleeing from the raids to Moscow, boosting its population.

This is one of the factors that led to the Principality of Moscow being what ultimately acquired all of the Russian lands. It benefited twofold, from both the weakening of those who might oppose them and the indirect strengthening of their state at their expense when those same people moved onto their land. My understanding is that it also led the princes of Moscow to be able to purchase land from the other princes, given Moscow's wealth and the less-than-great financial situation of the other princes due to all those raids.
 
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I made a post in Baltic feedback where I made some suggestions to Pskov area as well. I decided to share my work here as well..

PSK1.png
PSK2.png


COUNTRIES
Most historic maps show that Pskov was very thin at the top and wider at the bottom. I have no clue from where this P shape came from. Also, in the north-east there are locations that should be quite obviously part of Novgorod and not Pskov.

PSK3.png
PSK4.png
PSK5.png


LOCATIONS
I based borders of locations on the borders of provinces inside the Pskov governate. Izborsk follows more closely the cultural border beween the land of Seto people and locals Pskov Russians.

I also changed the name of Cheltsa location. It's current name is based on a local river and I changed it into a name based on a village that was mentioned in chronicles as a village closest to the famous Battle on the Ice. Currently it is small village that borders Samolva that is east fromit. You can find that village on Google maps here.

In addition, Ivangorod should be a separate location because how important as a fortification it became after the game start and also because Yama (modern day Kingisepa) should be a lot more east from it.

On the first map I marked 2 locations that are known to have excisted in Novgorod (rather than Pskov) and one with a question mark is probably made up location name. At least I have no clue what it is based on. Second map shows where the namesake settlements and/or castles are.

PSK6.png
PSK7.png
PSK8.png


CULTURES

Izbrosk should be majority Estonian or (if it excists) majority Southern Estonian. Russians started to move into that region mostly after 1473 when Pechory Monastery was built and later in 16th century became an important religious center. After that culture balance in that region started to favor Russians over Estonians.

Sebezh should be the same culture as Pskov because until 1535 Pskov had a forthress there and by all means this area was Pskovian (or in this case Novgorodian).
 
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Most maps show that Pskov at that time was very thin at the top and wider at the bottom. I have no clue from where this P shape came from. Also, in the north-east there are locations that should be quite obviously part of Novgorod and not Pskov.

Few examples:

Gerdarika_Pskov_Map_1462.jpg

Pskov_Republic_1389.png

1719581398254.png

IRP_1466.png
 
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I don't think the Pskov republic controlled Ivangorod...
I doubt that as well. Then again there aren't many (if at all) mentions of this area during 14th century. The first major mention of this area was made 1470 in a chronicle that mentions a village named "Novoye Selo on the Narva River". Novoye Selo means basically "New village". I don't know what sources they used to show on their map (first map in my post you quoted) that it belonged to Pskov. This could have been a real border or it could be just a claim they had.
 
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I made a post in Baltic feedback where I made some suggestions to Pskov area as well. I decided to share my work here as well..

View attachment 1196082View attachment 1196083

COUNTRIES
Most historic maps show that Pskov was very thin at the top and wider at the bottom. I have no clue from where this P shape came from. Also, in the north-east there are locations that should be quite obviously part of Novgorod and not Pskov.

View attachment 1196084View attachment 1196085View attachment 1196086

LOCATIONS
I based borders of locations on the borders of provinces inside the Pskov governate. Izborsk follows more closely the cultural border beween the land of Seto people and locals Pskov Russians.

I also changed the name of Cheltsa location. It's current name is based on a local river and a changed it into a name based on a village that was mentioned in chronicles as a village closest to the famous Battle on the Ice. Currently it is small village that borders Samolva that is east fromit. You can find that village on Google maps here.

In addition, Ivangorod should be a separate location because how important as a fortification it became after the game start and also because Yama (modern day Kingisepa) should be a lot more east from it.

On the first map I marked 2 locations that are known to have excisted in Novgorod (rather than Pskov) and one with a question mark is probably made up location name. At least I have no clue what it is based on. Second map shows where the namesake settlements and/or castles are.

View attachment 1196087View attachment 1196088View attachment 1196089

CULTURES

Izbrosk should be majority Estonian or (if it excists) majority Southern Estonian. Russians started to move into that region mostly after 1473 when Pechory Monastery was built and later in 16th century became an important religious center. After that culture balance in that region started to favor Russians over Estonians.

Sebezh should be the same culture as Pskov because until 1535 Pskov had a forthress there and by all means this area was Pskovian (or in this case Novgorodian).
Also the location of Ostrov is too big for my taste, would be neat if you'd cut it, also also the ? location is Dubrovno, which was part of Novgorod and not Pskov
 
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Also the location of Ostrov is too big for my taste, would be neat if you'd cut it, also also the ? location is Dubrovno, which was part of Novgorod and not Pskov

I agree. Ostrov indeed looks a bit wierd. I also noticed that Pskov location was way too big. Based on your suggestion and my own observations, I decided to make following changes:

PSK3(2).png
PSK4(2).png
PSK5(2).png


I decided to base new location on Volodimerets castle and settlement (and not Slavkovitchi that devs used), because it was to my knowledge most notable castle and settlement in that region. Based on archeological findings it is known that the settlement was there already during 13th century. Legend says that this place was named after a king of Kievan Rus called Vladimir the Great, who christianized the Rus. First chronicle mention of Volodimerets is from 1462. Germans at that time knew it as Wolmar. Nowadays this place is more known as Vladimirets. At the same time, the earliest mention I found about Slavkovitchi is from early 19th century and even without it, it seems to have way less historic importance than for example Volodimerets.

I decided to extend my original Pskov borders a bit more east so that the namesake "Volodimerets" settlement would be inside my Pskov borders.

---

Also, thanks for pointing out that Dubronjo (or how ever else you spell it) is probably meant to be Dubrovno. Just to clarify, my questionmark was more meant to show my uncertainty over "what does that settlement name stand for" rather than "is it in Pskov or Novgorod".
 
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I'm pretty sure the prince of Moscow at this start date is literally nicknamed "Moneybags".

Notably, this implies what you said is true, but also implies that it's something happening right when the game starts rather than something that happened already. So, if we're talking development, Moscow should be in the middle of enriching itself rather than already being well-off.
I completely agree with you.

In general, you have described in more detail the reasons for the rise of the Moscow principality, and I also agree that the actual rise occurred later than the starting date of the game. Perhaps the game doesn't provide enough opportunities to simulate such a sharp rise in Moscow's population, so the size was increased, but I hope the developers will make it possible to simulate it during the gameplay.
 
I agree. Ostrov indeed looks a bit wierd. I also noticed that Pskov location was way too big. Based on your suggestion and my own observations, I decided to make following changes:

View attachment 1196152View attachment 1196153View attachment 1196154

I decided to base new location on Volodimerets castle and settlement (and not Slavkovitchi that devs used), because it was to my knowledge most notable castle and settlement in that region. Based on archeological findings it is known that the settlement was there already during 13th century. Legend says that this place was named after a king of Kievan Rus called Vladimir the Great, who christianized the Rus. First chronicle mention of Volodimerets is from 1462. Germans at that time knew it as Wolmar. Nowadays this place is more known as Vladimirets. At the same time, the earliest mention I found about Slavkovitchi is from early 19th century and even without it, it seems to have way less historic importance than for example Volodimerets.

I decided to extend my original Pskov borders a bit more east so that the namesake "Volodimerets" settlement would be inside my Pskov borders.

---

Also, thanks for pointing out that Dubronjo (or how ever else you spell it) is probably meant to be Dubrovno. Just to clarify, my questionmark was more meant to show my uncertainty over "what does that settlement name stand for" rather than "is it in Pskov or Novgorod".
Also how about that the part of the original tinto Gdov location that is in Novgorod to be renamed Pribuzh, unless you'd find a better name
 
Also how about that the part of the original tinto Gdov location that is in Novgorod to be renamed Pribuzh, unless you'd find a better name

I am not so well versed in that area and because of that I can't say with any kind of certainty which town/village/castle should be used as the name of the location. One source that could help to find such a settlement or castle is a following map of that area. It depicts Novgorod during 16th century after it fell under Muscovite rule.

Novgorod_Pyatiny.jpg
 
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The fact that Vologda is a town but Tver, Vladimir, and Moscow are the only towns in northeastern Rus' feels wrong. Why wouldn't Rostov, Yaroslavl, Suzdal be towns too?
 
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