Tinto Maps Special Edition - 6th of January 2025 - The World

[Bawhoppen]

Most likely traded indirectly. There are also Colombian artifacts in Mexico and vice versa, as well as Maya artifacts in the US southwest. It doesn't mean that the trade was direct or there were relations, nor does it mean that'd be they'd "belong to the same market" in game terms.

There is some evidence for Maya trade with Cuba and perhaps Florida, and iirc indirect trade with the lower Mississippi. But the Maya market reaching into Canada is pure comedy.

Anyways like the other guy said, it doesn't affect gameplay too much because Project Caesar pretends you need a state to have trade networks... which I hope will be changed.

Well sure it's indirect, but including it as part of the market is as good of an abstraction as any, if the alternative is no market at all, which I assume is the default.
But I do agree that maybe more grounded markets, including SOP markets would be neat.

 

[Davincie]

Is building based nations basically just a europe and japan mechanic? Does anything pop up anywhere else during the game?

 

[nyetflix2]

View attachment 1240341View attachment 1240342View attachment 1240352
While Tunjur is indeed an Arabic-speaking group, this area shouldn't be majority arabic especially in this time period, especially considering they are non-Muslim in your map.
The area of Tunjur should be mostly Maban, here is the modern distribution:
View attachment 1240346
Area of Daju should be Fur in the north, here is modern distribution of both:
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View attachment 1240343

Great catch, I had totally missed this. They also currently portray Gumuz as speaking Arabic which is a big mistake. Bilala is portrayed as Saharan (related to Kanuri and Toubou) when it is actually pretty close to Baguirmi. The exclave of Baguirmi in South Sudan is Moru-Madi, which is a much more distant relative of Baguirmi than Bilala. Daju speaking the Nubian language is also arguably wrong, as it's more closely related to Nilotic than Nubian but realistically should be an independent language.

This is unfortunately just scratching the surface when it comes to languages in Sub-Saharan Africa, the main issue being languages like "Nigerian" and "Bantu". It seems like "mutually intelligible in 1337" as a rule has been traded for "clearly demonstrated language families constitute single languages". I get that some compromises are necessary for gameplay when it comes to highly diverse regions, but I was hoping for more granularity/realism than this.

 

[Zerodv]

Why are modern language names like "German" and "Italian" used when those languages did not exist back in the day? They are artificial languages created fairly recently based upon different languages like the East Middle German dialects/languages and Tuscan. Now it seems like people in 1337 spoke German or Italian, when they did not. I would suggest different names for the language/groups, or splitting them up better.

They weren't created fairly recently, they were organically built up by literate people during the early modern period. But what do you think happened when a Lombard went to Tuscany? Did he had to speak in Latin? Or have to formally learn Tuscan? The reality is that these languages are a construct to both represent the fact these languages are related and fairly intelligible and also the fact that the literate classes of these regions organically agreed upon one standard without political unity, which has to account for something even if it's anacronistically put back in time.

 

[Knight of Lemonwood]

God bless Johan & Co

 

[arkh4ngelsk]

It is actually realistic, though? Mayan artifacts are found across the East Coast all the time that got traded there... Am I incorrect about this?

No they aren't. The only clearly Mesoamerican artifact I'm aware of found anywhere northeast of Texas is a single obsidian scraper found in Oklahoma. There have been theories floated about mound construction being inspired by Mesoamerica (though this is very sketchy, as mound construction in the modern US predates even the Olmecs) and speculation about linguistic connections but as far as I am aware nothing has been proven on that front. Maize seems to have been introduced via the American Southwest (which did have direct contact with Mesoamerica) and the total absence of Mesoamerican things like cacao or cotton cultivation in the American Southeast suggests that any contact that occurred was indirect or sporadic.

On that note - the current market map is definitely wrong there, Cahokia's reach extended much farther than that (Cahokian artifacts have been found as far away as northern Florida). Given the market mechanics I understand why it looks the way it does, but I hope the Cahokia market can be extended to cover its accurate range.

 

[SAmaster]

You should make the color for monarchies a brighter red color. The pale brown kinda fades into the background of the governments map mode.

I notice that a lot of the name seem to fade away from the center of the map. That a stylistic thing? I don't think it adds much.

Could you also add a 'culture group' map in?

 

[AntarcticRanger]

This is awesome!

I look forward to Wednesday when i will get an explanation as to why the only Oceanic Jungle (aka temperate rainforest) is found in West Australia

 

[Eduspace05]

Why does Peru have so few ports, did I miss any reasonable explanation?

 

[SAmaster]

In 1337, Britain is in the middle of a transition from primary wool export to manufacturing cloth on their own at a massive scale, which was one of the first steps towards their economic power in the later half of the game. This moment is represented by the South and East of England being of similar development to the continent but the rest of the isles still operating in a very traditional rural manner.

I worry this'll nerf the heck out of Scotland. Now Scotland was and is very rural, but I believe today it has around a third-a quarter the population of England, don't know if that's quite the same as in the 1300's. But Scotland throughout the history of the British Isles was never successfully subjugated by force, I believe at game start you are modeling the Scottish War of Independence, but even that was more the result of a marriage alliance. And when Scotland finally did come under English rule it was due to a personal union Scotland had led, and then a giant debt crisis that caused the Act of Union to be signed. Anyway- point being I want to be sure that Scotland is very hard for an English player to conquer, and that it's not impossible for Scotland to not get immediately eaten every game.

 

[Aenar212]

The purple Premyslid dynasty looks a little out of place in my opinion, but maybe I’m just used to yellow/gold from CK3.

Any timeline on Germany feedback?

 

[AgathosKaiSophos]

Thought I'd mention this here as well since it's of relevance and the Anatolia feedback thread doesn't really touch on liturgical languages:

Saw on the new Tinto Maps post for world maps that Cilicia's liturgical language still hasn't been fixed (it's currently Coptic while it should be Armenian, or (less likely) Latin.)

To elaborate on the Latin bit, the situation was actually more complicated around this time, there had been numerous continued attempts to unite the Armenian Church in Cilicia with the Catholic Papacy. As part of this, there were also numerous attempts to introduce the Latin rite. In terms of religious politics, Cilicia was a constant tug of war between more pro-Eastern (Apostolic, Armenian) and pro-Western (Catholic, Latin) factions. Cilician royals often tended to have pro-Latin sympathies due to diplomatic reasons at a time when this was crucial for survival, but this was highly unpopular amongst most laity and prelates.

To illustrate my point, an excerpt from the book 'Armenian Cilicia XII -- XIV Century: Dawn, Splendor and Twilight of a Christian Kingdom during the Crusades':
"In Cilicia, after the death of Catholicos Constantine IV, Jacob II of Tarsus, a staunch nationalist, was nominated catholicos in 1327. As if in response to the new catholicos’s ultra-nationalist stance, an order called the Unitors, under the leadership of Hovhannes of Karni, a Dominican monk, gained strength. The aim of the order, in the most slavish of the pro-Latin tendencies, was to replace the Armenian Orthodox rite with the Latin rite of the Roman Catholic Church. The king’s extreme pro-Latin attitude led to a further deterioration in relations between the two religious factions. Threatened with excommunication by the catholicos, Levon promptly replaced him with a more moderate prelate, Mekhitar I (1341-1355). But when a pro-Latin Armenian bishop, Nerses Balients, approached the catholicos in the hope of winning support for a drive to unite the two Churches, Mekhitar put a stop to any further proposals for a union with the Church of Rome. Soon after, Balients travelled to Avignon, the seat of the papacy in France, for an audience with Pope Benedict XII, and presented him with a list of “117 errors” committed by the Armenian Church.

In response to these charges of erroneous articles of faith, the pope asked an Armenian priest, Daniel of Tabriz, to write a letter to Levon IV and one to the catholicos. Daniel had been sent to Avignon by Levon to persuade the pope of the unjust accusations levelled against the Armenian Church. In his letters, the pope demanded that the union of the two churches be proclaimed. In 1341, following a riot fomented by the nationalist party, Levon IV was brutally murdered. Barely thirty years of age, Levon left no heir."


I will also say that this entire setup with church politics and diplomacy with the Catholic West would make for very interesting path in unique events/missions/decisions and so on! Highly recommend doing something with this

 

[Canafa]

I understand that there are certain gameplay considerations to keep in mind, but the singular language blobs of "French," "Scandianavian," "Spanish," "Arabic," etc etc is kind of disappointing. Is there any chance that post-launch yall would be willing to take a deeper look at the language system? The evolution and standardization of language and writing in this time period is a pretty important thing, after all.

 

[darkyodada]

Is there any chance the game will be announced this year or not?

 

[theEXPERTpt]

On the Harbor's matter, Porto definetly needs to be a better Harbor than it is right now. I believe someone already made a detailled post about this.

 

[FeZe]

Hello everyone,

I have 2 questions:

1. When are you guys going to change Yuan s color?

2. Do I need to change my 1050ti?

 

[cjworks]

Please explain the changes made to Ethiopia, it now controls most of north Africa. Is Adal as vassals in the somalia regions?

 

[TornadoWatch]

In 1337, Britain is in the middle of a transition from primary wool export to manufacturing cloth on their own at a massive scale, which was one of the first steps towards their economic power in the later half of the game. This moment is represented by the South and East of England being of similar development to the continent but the rest of the isles still operating in a very traditional rural manner.

Just wanted to chime in - This is smart from a balance perspective. England is an absolute menace and needs checks and balances to keep it from taking over the map, especially in a player's hand. This is good. The isles not being as strong encourages England to take risks by engaging with France, for example.

 

[zeruosi]

I want to know when the wrong coastline will be corrected

 

[TitaniumMan91]

Regarding the market map, why are only some of the markets labeled with their name?