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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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So we’ve seen that there will be slave pops, but throughout a lot of this timeline, they’re also frankly treated as trade goods in many ways. How will this play out? Slaves had a cost, they were also very costly to transport, and some system that has this trade could also help build the demographics in the new world that we see today, a large African-descent ethnicity in the Central American regions.
 
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The north sea was not wasteland in the map from Tinto Talks #2. Has that changed, or are sea provinces far from shore inherently not part of a market?

sea locations that are not adjacent to an ownable location is never part of a market.
 
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It looks like, if I'm understanding it correctly, Genoa controls both the Genoa market and the Kaffa market. Are there any special interactions with this (reduced cost to transfer goods between those two markets?) and at what point would the two markets just merge into one?

When they are close enough in distance, it would perhaps be beneficial.. but that case is really very unlikely..
 
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Does which market a location belong to entirely determined by market attractiveness? Or can it be intervened by the country?
For example, can a Lowlands country actively leave the London market and join the Paris market? Or the country can only observe market dynamically changes on itself?

You can try to deny market access to London and give market preference to Paris.. in this case its rather likely all your locations move to Paris. Also its probably a loss, as there is a lot of wool in England, and you got a nice cloth industry, and you may not be able to import any from London, as you probably have very very low merchant power there.
 
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Can burghers trade food, as well as other trade goods?

And this looks really, really exciting. I’m particularly grateful for the ability to automate all of this, so I can interact with trade indirectly (building roads and ports, etc.)
 
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As much as the HRE borders are terrifying yet exciting to look at on the map, I couldn't help but notice the bordergore of the French Appanages as well. Oof. Fi

One day (not soon), it will be fun to talk about how France works with its unique subjects.
 
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About the estates dev diary, shouldn't noble estate satisfaction impact army quantity?
In the case they are disappointed, you're left naked militarily, at least until absolutism.
 
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Not sure if it's been asked before, but on the screenshot there is a location in France, which from its location looks like part of the Duchy of Alençon and part of the County of Maine , that is in the London or Bordeaux market, despite being surrounded by the Paris market.

1st: Why? 2nd: Does an exclave like that, completely surrounded by another market, actually function normally?
 
Is there a benefit to controlling stops along a trade route? For example, I can import trade to Lisbon directly from India, but I assume the capacity will be low due to the distance, but if I control a market in West Africa or the Cape will that benefit the import from India in some way?
 
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How will the markets work for colonial posessions? Would Goa remain in whichever Indian market it started in, or would it become part of the Lisbon market? And if it stays a part of its original market, what implications would that have?
indian.. there is no way that portugal can ever propagate market power that far..

It gives portugal a lot of nice access to the indian market its in, and can built up a lot of merchant power so you can make sure you can export indian goods ahead of others attempting to trade.
 
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One day (not soon), it will be fun to talk about how France works with its unique subjects.
Unique as in, something limited to the TAG “France”, with no way for any other country to get access to something similar :confused: ?
 
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What stands out to me is that Hungary and Lithuania have no internal borders.
Hungary does: Croatia (and depending on perspective: Bosnia, Wallachia).
It's not like they were uniquely centralized in this time period (IIRC)
Hungary at this time certainly was. The ruler at start date, Charles I of Anjou, spent about 20 years to completely obliterate any alternate power centres in the kingdom and any kind of opposition to his rule. Under the consolidated rule of the Anjous, about 1/3 of all lands in Hungary were owned by the Crown, while out of the roughly 300 castles/forts found in the country, 160 were in royal hands. By comparison, the most powerful noble family at the time, the Laczkfis had only 7 castles.

Hungary was even more centralised under the early Árpáds (until Andrew II's policy change), the crown owned roughly twothirds of all lands in the kingdom.

With this being said, there are two other areas beside Croatia which could be made into internal divisions: Slavonia and Transylvania. The leaders of these areas were appointed by the king directly (in a non-hereditary, retractable fashion). They were tasked to manage royal domains and to represent the king/crown in the area and to lead the local army.
 
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Very cool to see that Sound Tolls are an actual mechanic in the base game, and not just a modifier or something slapped on to the province.
 
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Does the market access (don't know if that's the official name, the darkness of locations on the map) impact other stuff than 'hiw likely is this location to change market"?