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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Hm, the low countries are almost entirely in London’s market at game start? That’s interesting.

How do you ”declare independence” economically by creating your own market?

You spend lots of gold primarily.
 
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How will market control work when the market owner is a subject country (i.e. Ragusa being a venetian vassal in 1337)?

subject decides
 
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I wonder how significant rivers will be in this too since they significantly ease some of the logistics of trade

rivers will impact it
 
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I'm also wondering about the Silk Road. Given that terra incognita will still exist, and European traders can't go to China directly at the beginning of the game, will the game be able to simulate the demand for Asian goods in Europe? Can a significant demand for say silk in Constantinople prompt the AI in Persia to import it from further east, prompting the actors in that further east market to import it from China and move it west?

yes, as the prices in China are cheaper than the one in persia and persia is cheaper than lets say the prices in Venice.
 
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Hi Johan, another great DD. Say I were colonial Netherlands with a goal of disrupting GBs colonization of the Americas, could I devise a strategy of exporting weaponry, for example muskets, into the American markets of dominant Natives for dirt cheap. Would this make the native Americans a more formidable foe for the GB colonizers?
 
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I'm going to be picky related to the language of the locations.

Why is Köln and Praha written in their respectives languages, but then we have Naples or Venice written in English.
I think you need to pick a lane. Everything in English or everything in the language of the country that controls the market.
 
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If I conquer Cyprus as England how will I be able to get my Christian pops there wine and beer if the, assumingly Muslim controlled, Aleppo Market has import/export bans on wine and beer? Will you be required to produce those goods locally on Cyprus?
 
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Will the market owner be able to set export caps for certain nations?

Example: Austria is importing too much of your iron for their army and now you don't have enough for your own army expansion, so you limit them to 4 iron per month.

Should also give a CB, but wouldn't be a total embargo.

Trades only happen AFTER all internal demands in the market are satisfied.
 
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Merchant power and capacity is a little confusing to me. It seems like power defines a rank ordering, capacity how much you can take from a market. So if you are the most powerful merchant in the node, and have enough capacity to absorb all of the goods in a market nobody else will get anything
Capacity is how much you can export from the market into another market. Even if you theoretically could have enough power and capacity to export everything from a market, that would leave the market empty and the locations in it wouldn't be able to satisfy their needs, including your needs, because as the TT says, a part of your merchants' power in a market comes from buildings in a market. So unless you can build those power increasing buildings directly in the market, and not only in your locations belonging to that market, exporting everything from a market would be to your detriment too, and this is even before taking into account whether it is economically feasible to do so (i.e. whether you can set up trade routes which result in losses for you, but even if you can you'd run out of money eventually)

But capacity is a great metric to represent how much you can choke off the ability of others to trade from that market.

@Johan could you tell us if the building which increase merchant power are built in locations you own, or are they 'foreign'?

Edit: Guess this answers it:
Trades only happen AFTER all internal demands in the market are satisfied
 
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If my country is located on the edge of a market, so that my locations have very low market access, can I create an independent market on my own to improve market access of my locations? How difficult is this action?
Is it possible that I have created my own market, but due to the strong attraction of the nearby market, most of my locations will be forced into that market again? (I hope it's true)

yes and yes
 
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Since trade will be need to trace a path, will there a neat map mode to see all the trade routes (perhaps filterable by country, market and good)?

How does overland trade work for landlocked markets? Will they follow more specific trade routes, like the Silk Road and along rivers, or will they just take the shorts path between markets.

Will you then be able to cut of trade routes by privateering and raiding caravans?

Finally, how do goods flow? Do they always first go from location A to the market centre A, then to the market centre B, then the location B (sort of like Vicky 3)? Is it straight from location A to B? Or is it somewhere in between, where there a more local market centre like major cities and ports, and goods flow between them.
 
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How much will geography affect trade routes? Will mountains make markets significantly less likely for a location to be in a market on the other side, and will rivers make it significantly more likely for a location to be in a market down or upstream?

It feels very strange for Bern to be in the Genoese market across the alps, rather than a market on the Rhine
 
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You also mention that trades must always physically pass through two localities. In the example you've given this is Riga and London, two market centres. But I presume from the way you've phrased it that this isn't always the case. And it's possible for a trade between the Riga and London markets to go through Reval and Hull?

it will go what is the closest path between the market centers. so british imports from canada and such may most likely enter through Liverpool? Swedish imports from outside the baltic when they form their own market would most likely enter through Göteborg
 
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