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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Question about the patriarchates:
if you conquer all the countries under one (as a muslim for example), does it disappear? Or does it still exist using the pops from you country that are orthodox?
 
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Does this mean PC might be the first game in Paradox history to accurately represent Switzerland as a permanent military alliance of independent cities and cantons?

I didn't think such a thing would happen in my lifetime.

We have not done Switzerland flavor yet, but the Swizz Confederation is one of the reasons for us to make this system
 
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Hi Johan. Perhaps you could answer some of the following questions.

1. Is the number of electors secular and electors spiritual in the HRE fixed and are they tied to land?

This wasn't the case in other EU games iirc, definetly not in EU4, but at least since the Sachsenspiegel and definetly since the Golden Bull the number of spiritual electors was set to 3, with the Sees of Mainz, Köln and Trier. Should one of them lose the electorate for some reason, will we be required to also name another spiritual prince instead? Or are we able to jump directly into what happened at the Imperial Recess (Reichsdeputationshauptschluss) and give more/all electorates to secular Princes, even before the reformation or secularization?

2. Does the City of Frankfurt play a special role in game as it did in the Golden Bull?

3. Is Eastern/Oriental Catholicism or the possibility of an end of the Great Schism, from either side, modeled in some way or is it something that you would potentially explore in a future DLC?

4. How sandboxy vs historical is the game actually?

I am not advocating for the Hearts of Iron historical mode and everything playing out according to the history books, as some claim who strawman the historical-position. However i'd also like to see things like a Habsburg Spain or Ireland staying Catholic in, let's say, 1/3rd of the games. The further the game progresses the more likely it is for these things not to happen and the harder it is to model them. How do you deal with this given the earlier start-date or does the game turn strongly into a pure sandbox strategy game after 150 years?
 
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Looks like nobody mentioned this yet, but given that IOs can have characters as leaders, I guess a character system will make its debut in Project Caesar. Loved the TT, I am speechless, keep up the good work!
 
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I know graphics are WiP . But my feedback is I wish flags were not that wavy and shadowed , just plain flat rectangle .

but they looks so nice when they wave in the game
 
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Out of curiosity will you need to wait a month of game time before needing to declare war or will this game allow for instant day 1 actions to take place? What about cooldowns from sending diplomats?
 
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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

So, the above statement is incorrect. Chinese tributaries are not considered to be part of the Middle Kingdom (中國). They are considered to be foreigners, not Chinese. They emulate China or the Middle Kingdom. If the sides are part of the middle there no longer is a middle. Especially during the Ming no tributary would have been considered to have been part of the Middle Kingdom, not even the Koreans, sort of the model tributary.

During the Yuan these feng chen were probably considered to be part of the Great Yuan 大元, but surely not to be part of the Middle Kingdom. Also why did you guys settle on 'fengchen'?
 
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