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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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International Organization is a bit of a strange name and makes me immediately think of an alliance or economic pact, but it doesn’t seem like the term actually appears in the game (unless I missed something) so I suppose it’s fine.
 
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I can't wait to see the European Union in Project Caesar ;)

Also those borders... I don't have any other words to say other than that they are simply glorious! Voltaire must be rolling in his grave right now.
 
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Can organizations have sub-organizations?

Here I'm thinking specifically of how the HRE has regional "circles" and of course the Protestant and Catholic Leagues considered as subgroups of the German states.

Kind of.. You can belong to multiple ones, and they can be related.

Pretty sure Guelphs is one, and so if Ghibellines, and they are only for HRE members.
 
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Just on the tribute system in China, Yuan is the "payer" and the tributaries are its "payees" (change this word to recipients maybe?) -- how does this benefit Yuan? İ thought tribute would be demanded from the subjects, not offered to them..
 
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Looks interesting but, to clarify, is the big difference between International Organisations and similar systems in previous games is that to some degree they all use the same framework even if the specific features for different organisations may be different?
 
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Love the map. Are vassals under a normal kingdom part of this "International Organization"?

BTW I think this name could use a little work. Makes me think of the United Nations. Not sure what would be better "Superstate Groups" or something like that might work
 
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unrelated but imo provices should be flexible and have some sort of system similar to the de jure system in CK3 where if a tag owns some but not all locations in a province then the province that those locations are a part of should get smaller and the locations within should become a part of the surrounding provinces.

This is under the assumption that there are bonuses from owning all of the locations within a province but it allows players to change the map to benefit them. this obviously wouldnt be as poweful as it is in CK3 as there are no internal vassals as there are in CK3 that could change the borders of provinces you already own all of, and this shouldnt be a thing regardless since it just makes a mess inside your country and offers no real benefit.

locations should also remember which province they were a part of originally and if a tag owns that location and its original provice then it should drift back to its original setup, this could also be a game rule so players can choose if they want any locational drift changes made to provinces to be permanent.
 
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Are there alternatives to enacting the Golden Bull or variations that can be made on it?

none atm. the golden bull is kinda inevitable by 1337.
 
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You talked about Patriarchates and from picture I see there is different countries to different Patriarchs. Does this menas, that countries can create Patriarchates? And does the country has to be orthodox, or they can only have orthodox provinces? F.E
Grand duchy of Lithuania had that
 
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Oh my. This is one VERY interesting mechanic. Lots of potential it sounds like and I am very glad it's dynamic. The biggest benefit I see is that it allows a way to represent how some countries have a measure of shared identity that is not strong enough for them all to be in alliance or one tag, which allows them to collectively respond to outside invasions (so colonizers can't pick them off one by one at leisure) without making the region ahistorically unified.

The Middle Kingdom sounds interesting- the mention of vassals and governors sounds like China won't be one tag anymore like in early previews, instead having vassals like France or the HRE?

Regarding the "Tatar Yoke", why is the Golden Horde not part of it? Does it at least have some special interactions? The whole point of the Tatar Yoke is that the Russians are the Horde's to smack around, so they should have some say in how tax collection is handled.
 
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