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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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In the map of Castile I can see "Crow...", is the Crown of Castile an IO? and does Aragón have "Crown" too in its name?

its a flavorful name for a country
 
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I'll have to say, I haven't commented on the Tinto Talks before but I find this worth my time. I honestly find this very innovative design to standardize all these old diplomatic relationships and special mechanics into one neat package that's open to easy modding, well done! But I'm left with a question, or a couple. Easy one first, does this mean Switzerland will start out as a single country or is it a international organisation compromising the different cantons and all the extra treaties and whatnot associated with it? In the same vane, personal unions were mentioned. And like Switzerland the Dutch Republic was a confederation. How is something like Burgundy represented? A single IO headed by the same monarch ruling a bunch of different countries, some of which are a part of the HRE IO, some of a hypothetical France IO and these bonds can be theoretically broken like Phillip the Good did? Where does the IO Burgundy end and when does it it become a singular country? With the shared institutions Phillip the Good sets up? With the Pragmatic Sanction of Charles V? Is a tagswitch to the Netherlands possible? Anyways, good job to get me asking so many questions, shows the potential of a system like this!
 
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I notice that countries like Ventinois and Verona have green spots in some of their Locations. Seeing the other green around the HRE, I'm assuming this means it is a free city, and that some locations within regular nations can be designated as Free Cities with the rest of their land being regular land?

Think the green without the purple lines means that the location is outside the HRE but owned by a member state
 
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Can you please add mechanics for the Eastern Catholic rights, they're never in any Paradox games despite how interesting and important they are. Especially since most of them came into existence around the start date of Project Caesar, through many minor schisms from other Christian rites. Then deciding to join in communion with the Latin Catholic Church, but on the condition that they would be their own autonomous, semi-autocephalous churches under the Pope.
 
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So from a very Realist EU4 to a much more Liberal project cEU5ar (in IR theory terms that is). Might we even speak of shared sovereignty in case of the HRE?

I always felt that EU4's interstate anarchy worked best when it was tempered some how with a regional structure or narrative. Like the HRE or the Chinese empire with it's tributaries. I am glad to see that you have built further upon the improvements you made in the Mandate of Heaven DLC for EU4 from so many years ago. I wonder will a Ming dynasty get the change to alter the relations China has with East Asia after it replaces the Yuan? Anyway I love the notion of International Organizations and that East Asia gets this kind of attention from the start.
 
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Also, I suppose this is more of a nitpick, but... why is Serbia under the Ecumenical Patriarch in 1337? It had autocephaly for over 100 years at that point. Its archbishop wasn't a patriarch in that term (and was something it elevated its archbishop to being a few years after the start date), but that's because autocephaly and patriarch are two wholly different things.
 
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Hey, despite the fact that this isn't a map post, I'd like to point out an inaccuracy. The border between Hungary and Poland on the map shown is inaccurate, as it matches the modern day Slovak-Polish border exactly. This is a border that only came to be after the treaty of Trianon, and the old border between Poland and Hungary looked a bit different. In the images attached are the Project Caesar map, a map that illustrates the border of the Kingdom of Hungary in 1910 (might not match completely with 1337 but it's more applicable than the bodern day border) and the third image illustrating border changes that happened only after the two world wars.
This is a pet peeve of mine which not many paradox games or mods get right, even though it's pretty insignificant it bothers me lol
Also, I'm sure you didn't forget about things like the Spisz pledge, which is something that happened in the game's time frame and is way more significant in its impact, and I'm looking forward to how that's represented!
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"Unions: This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration."

Are subject unions more free to do their own thing in this game? Can Bohemia under Luxembourg declare its own wars? And will it not automatically be called into an offensive war with its overlord?

Also will it be possible to move my court (change tag) to my pu subject? Sort of like Charles IV making Bohemia his primary title and not Luxembourg?

There is no subjects in a PU in Project Caesar.

All countries are equal in a union.
 
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Will we be able to create our own organisations during a game? let's say dismantling hre and then creating something else in that place

no
 
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Very interesting. I've always felt that navigating the HRE is the most interesting International situation in EU. It will be interesting to see how dynamic IOs fare.
 
Does this mean that PC will use diplomatic relation slots akin to those in EU4? Is there no chance for a diplomatic capacity or a similar system?

If it costs 1 slot or 6.5 capacity doesn't matter in the end.. its a simple change, and we are not sure which one we want atm.
 
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Architecture like "units" existing in "locations" and belonging to "countries" is hardcoded, but almost all gamelogic is 100% scripted.. including MUCH of the diplomacy
Ah so just the important stuff that no PDX game worth looking at would go without, gotcha :p
 
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