Tinto Talks #25 - 14th of August 2024

[Johan]

Incredible! So happy to see pops-based colonization, much better than dev-based colonization in EUIV. One fun strategy from that game, though, was the new world exodus; under these mechanics, I can imagine it being possible as a small tag to move most or nearly all of your culture's population to a new world colony, and essentially relocate and play there. Would this be possible in the game mechanics? If so, would it be at all feasible to move 50%+ of pops from one location to another within, say, 100 years?

yes, if you are tiny you have to be careful, as you can easily get down to 1,000 pops in every home location .. (if you can afford extreme colonisation.)

 

[Johan]

Can I colonize locations making them consist of majority of natives?

yes

 

[Johan]

In other words, it's not gonna happen in this game either, unless the player pulls it off, because the game cannot simulate the reasons why the British eventually obtained the position that allowed them to do that. Unless (this is a gross simplification) I can trade with a ROTW country so much that they let me take over administering parts of their country?

We have other mechanics we will talk about during the next 2 weeks that will simulate that.

 

[Johan]

What if I accept the culture and religion of the province I am colonising? Say England accepting Irish culture, then trying to colonise ireland, how will that work?

You can't colonise someone of the same religion group..

 

[Johan]

Will Norway be able to colonize Northern America early due to Greenland's proximity? Or does Greenland not count as Norway for the sake of exploration/colonization range due to Greenland & Iceland being a subject nation, and not direct ownership?

Do Iceland & Greenland count as colonial nations? Probably not, but would be interesting to know for sure!

They are fiefdom subjects, so no.

 

[Johan]

I dig it so far, though I wonder if 1000 is too low as a minimum.

Its 1,000 for when there is no population.

 

[Johan]

This sounds good. I have a few questions:

1. if two countries are colonising the same location and and country A reaches the threshold first, will country B still be able to send pops to get a majority in the location? Or will there be some event to block country B from further colonising efforts? Will this result a diplomatic incident?
2. What happens to the pops in a colony of country B, if country A reached the requirements first? Will there be a way to simulate where those pops set out and establish a new colony/nation (similar to how the Boer Republics were established)
3. Are there any cultural hybridisation of mixed European colonists with local pops forming new cultures?
4. Do you get a claim on a region or area after you have a colonised am x number of locations in that area?
5. Can you conquest an area (such as India) and then create a colonial nation as a subject, or would that only be a vassal?

1 first one to get above their target percentage gets it.

 

[Johan]

Does Power Projection depend on a nation's navy? If not, why did you decide to go in that direction? Theoretically, navies and owning far-flung ports should be some of the largest mechanics driving Power Projection, and it would help make navies a lot more important than they currently are.

Its two different concepts.

 

[Johan]

If you start a colonial charter in someone's territory and halfway through their power projection raises and now it's equal to yours, what happens with your colonial charter? Does it finish its work or stops?

Its abandoned if there is no valid locations to send any pops to.

 

[Johan]

Interesting! So that means Norway itself will have challenges with colonizing? Or at least as much of a difficulty as other European countries. Not as much of a shortcut to North-American colonization as in EU4?

they got no major benefit no..

 

[Johan]

So hypothetically France, should it get a lead in PP, could send it's faithful catholic, but non-d'öil speaking subjects to Northafrica by choosing province in Brittany and Occitania with the age of discovery cabinet action?

well, north africa is not exactly a place you can colonise, as they would almost always be on par in advances with france.

 

[Johan]

The Spanish also colonized many areas that retained native majorities through their religious mission system, particularly with the Jesuits. Incl. Sonora, California, much of the American southwest, parts of the Amazon basin. The French also set up missions in the Midwest and Canada to colonize, and I believe the Portuguese in Brazil. Will there be any representation of this? I believe missions should also be less integrated into your country/CN, I don't believe they really payed taxes or contributed manpower though I could be wrong.

This is something we will talk about in later TT.

 

[Johan]

You mentioned Yuan colonizing, so I want to ask - what discourages Yuan from colonizing parts of the spice islands, the Philippines, Okinawa, etc.?
Is there anything in the game to actively discourage AI colonization outside of economic factors?

Yuan can send about 12 colonists month to each charter in the Age of Renaissance. Most of these areas are also owned by countries with similar PP, but Taiwan is not as organized.

Still there are about 50-60k people living in each of the 4 provinces in Taiwan, and in this Age, with all, you still need 40+% to be flip them. So you need to sent about 34k people to the islands. That is about 6800 months, and if you support a charter, you are down to 3200 months, or about 266 years.

And since colonists are picked from any locations where the dominant culture is accepted, its not likely that all of them are good as well.

 

[Johan]

What if two countries with the same primary culture and religion are colonizing the same province/location? How does it determine who gets what if the flipping is based on culture/religion

if in that situation, its "first charter started"

 

[Johan]

Not sure about the culture part either, as most of the Appalachian region was colonized by Scots-Irish (basically Scottish culture) rather than English people, and it still was considered part of colonial America and then the US, albeit pretty remote/autonomous de facto. Perhaps being of your culture group (or whatever equivalent you guys designed) would be easier to swallow.

That was rather after the Act of Union, and I'd argue that Scottish was an accepted culture of the UK by then.

 

[Johan]

Wait, you brought up something relevant. Can pops migrate to "empty" provinces ("going native", etc)? Will Greenland get worse with time with people assimilating into local tribes, going back to Scandinavia, or dying off, to the point the country is unsustainable? Would the locations owned by Greenland become tagless then?

What local tribes?

 

[Johan]

How are you representing the parts of the world that didn't have steelmaking using iron ore (just a little bit of meteoric iron), but obviously have iron reserves that could be exploited if you have the technology, like the Americas?

They simple can't build RGO's there until they get the advance.

 

[Johan]

How are the Dutch and Portuguese factorijen and feitorias represented? Unlike a direct colony or charter, these trading posts focused on establishing a foothold where they built a fortress to trade with the local population rather than taking over these areas for cultivation, to settle or for plantation development.

This is something we will talk about in 2 or 3 weeks time.

 

[Johan]

Does that mean you not only choose the province from which to send people to "support the colonies" but you can also choose which kinds of people? Only certain cultures or religions? To clarify, I'm talking about "supporting a colony" not colonizing itself. I've already read, that normal colonizing works automatically in a weighted system. But you did mention "supporting a colony" being great to expell minorities, so naturally one thinks we can choose who to send to "support the colony", right?

You select a province in your country, and it ships 100 of what ever pops may be there each month.

 

[Johan]

Does all this mean that colonial nations cannot colonise? In EU4 it was valid to build up the provinces and then let the colony expand by itself, but this system seems to suggest that you cannot do that in PC.

ofc they can.. they just need pops