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Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


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The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

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This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

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WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
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Map aside and onto the actual diary. Not the longest, but still very meaty. Generally an evolution of the EU4 system, but all the new additions are nice. The varied penalties to low satisfaction, stability being a factor in the system, estates being a part of the larger government mechanics, the tax and estates' own money, manpower from estates. All great ideas.

I also like the side remark that civil wars are a separate mechanics from rebellions.
 
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Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity
Does religious unity here mean the same thing as it does in EU4? Assuming that clergy represents your primary faith, I'd imagine they wouldn't become unhappy just because you conquered some land with people of a different religion. And furthermore - will clergy of different religions exist (and be represented by an estate?) or will clergy pops change social class if they have the wrong religion?
 
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These are so darn fun. I copy and paste into a text message the most fun parts (usually maps) to my son who is in school at the time these come out We can't wait to play this game.

That sounds like a great experience!
 
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At beginning of that period yes, but later when modern science was born it should worked that way, let's remember than this game should reflected not only 1337, but also 1683(long after Galileo, Copernicus, Gulp ;) etc)
At least a 1337-1821 game having the Clergy being responsible for science and education makes more sense than a 1836-1936 game doing the same thing (yes, in Victoria 2 the Clergymen is the only pop type responsible for raising literacy and generating research points, even in communist countries with state atheism). I wonder how Project Ceasar would handle revolutionary countries with their militant secularism. Hopefully going revolutional will have special mechanics (like new privilege for the Burghers to use their satisfaction for research and education) so that Revolution doesn't turn you into a technological backwater where no one knows how to read.
 
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Aren't achievements in EU IV still available if you only use grapchical mods? No need to allow achievements for mods beyond that...
UI mods in Vic3 are covered by the checksum because they are too powerful to not have them covered by the checksum.
 
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Estates have wealth and can build on their own it seems, somebody played MEIOU here.

Ironically, I've never really played MEIOU beyond testing it. I do have employees from the mod, and I really enjoy talking with @gigau and his friends at every Pdxcon.
 
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LOVE the map! :)

One thing I was wondering about that might have already been answered - I assume like all major last releases, achievements won't be tied to Ironman anymore? Totally understand the reasoning but still somehow sad about it in CK3/V3

If its my decision alone, achievements should ALWAYS require ironman.
 
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Then you could have a mod that trivializes all achievements :rolleyes:
If anyone wants to do that, then they are lame and that is their problem. Achievements are personal, so why gatekeep them? Not being able to play mods because achievements are not unlockable with them is my biggest gripe with eu4 and I am glad they changed it for other games. Achievements are attainable goals that make the game more enjoyable (to me). Mods make the game more flavorful, which also makes it better (for me).

I personally still play on ironman, but can use all kinds of fun mods on ck3. That option just makes the game much better, and I would like it for project caesar as well, and will keep advocating for it.
 
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I do wonder about factions that would start to become powerful through the time period, especially standing armies. Is that wrapped up under the guise of "The Crown"

Also another suggestion, "the crown" should only be used for monarchies, other governmental systems should have different names.
 
Can we expect estate privilege to be revoked as an instantly click if the requirements are fulfilled, or will it be a process such as passing a law in Vicky3? (I'd be more happy with the latter I think)

Technically its a click to remove it.. The consequences may not be something you'd be willing to live with though.
 
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I love so much of this - thanks for sharing it with us!


Hopefully modding will solve this issue for me, and clearly plenty of people like this new modern style map. I really don't though - there is such a great balance that can be achieved between still feeling physical and tangible, yet keeping the clear obvious political boundaries.

I feel like M&T nails this so well (similar ish area and era for comparison)

I really hope this comes across in the constructive way I intend it - but the top of these maps for me just absolutely blows the bottom out of the water in terms of beauty. Obviously WIP, much can change, this may just be a "flat political" version, many possible caveats - just wanted to share the direct comparison .

Screenshot_3.png


2962.png
 
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