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Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


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The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

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This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

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WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
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so we get an new eu4 type estate system?
Sounds like an evolution of that system blended with M&T system where estates actually live their own life and the state (player) influence them indirectly. A move in the right direction imo.
 
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The estate system looks like to be close to the IG system in Victoria 3 with more things that can affect their happiness. I like that. I hope it will be well balanced however, since that's a problem we have in Victoria 3.
 
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If Byzantium became the Byzantine Empire, I hope that Russia can be a Russian tsardom, and after that the Russian Empire...
Yes, Johan mentioned previously that the government affects the name of the country. Should be on the previous TT
 
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Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

This Feels... Off. The black death empowered the peasantry because they dropped in numbers, causing the nobility to fight and offer better deals to the peasantry.

however, under this setup either the opposite would be true or the black death wouldn't cause any change which also feels off as you'd (correctly) expect the Back Death to affect different wealth levels at different rates affecting the poor worse than the rich.

perhaps it would be best to have a ratio between the different estates with deviance from the ratio be what empowers them?
 
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Will it be possible to use your army for more then just fighting? In Imperator you can use your army to build roads to improve infrastructure, will the same mechanic be present in this game? I really liked that feature and perhaps you can improve it further and add the potential to speed up the building of forts, harbors, towns or other building by using your army, while also increasing the cost over time etc. Perhaps using your army for different projects can be locked behind organisation prerequisits and tech?
 
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Lol maybe. Anyway it's so dark that it looks like it has a layer of 50% opacity black slapped on top. Hopefully that's not how the map will look in game.

It's probably how it looks when your are zoomed in enough in a zone where you don't have any units/you don't have allies/vassals, etc. Much like EU4 IIRC.
 
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At beginning of that period yes, but later when modern science was born it should worked that way, let's remember than this game should reflected not only 1337, but also 1683(long after Galileo, Copernicus, Gulp ;) etc)
Even with the Galileo controversy, the majority of scientific discoveries during the time period covered by Project Caesar were made by clergy working at Universities which themselves were often under the authority of whichever church was the state church.
 
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How will the new pop and estate system model the Reformation? Will there be separate denominations? If so, might we see proto-Protestants, e.g. Waldensians and the Lollards represented among populations in the 1337 start date? To add to this question, would it be possible for a scenario in which the Lollards or the Waldensians come to prominence during the Reformation, instead of being subsumed into later movements?
 
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The map is beautiful, and I hate to bring negativity straight away, but please move away from the mobile-game-esque clean bland modern UI and let this be just a placeholder.
It's easily the worst part of the 'visual experience' of playing Victoria 3, and I'd hate to have it tarnish what can otherwise be a beautiful gem of a game.
Cant agree more. It does not give the feel of the era .I too hope its just a place holder ,athough i doubt it looking at their recent title like victoria 3 where they have leaned towards more modern mobile UI.(maybe to pull new player base?).
 
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LOVE the map! :)

One thing I was wondering about that might have already been answered - I assume like all major last releases, achievements won't be tied to Ironman anymore? Totally understand the reasoning but still somehow sad about it in CK3/V3
Please untie it all from Ironman. Achievements and mods should never again be mutually exclusive
 
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How will the new pop and estate system model the Reformation? Will there be separate denominations? If so, might we see proto-Protestants, e.g. Waldensians and the Lollards represented among populations in the 1337 start date? To add to this question, would it be possible for a scenario in which the Lollards or the Waldensians come to prominence during the Reformation, instead of being subsumed into later movements?
The Tinto Talk on pops mentions Lutheranism, so yes there will be separate denominations.
 
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The soldiers look like 18. century light infantry to me. Seems like my worries this will be late middle ages/renessaince only were unjustified. Let me board the hype train too.
 
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Very excited to see this. The concept of food production is also great because as the time will go on you'll be able to produce more and more food which will allow your population to boom and your economy to boom as well. Fantastic, and much better than simply lowering dev costs
Hopefully, there will also be modeling of the Columbian exchange and its effects on food production.
 
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