• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


i9u3ksuIdrnkGRpoqqS569fPV4MxZiIUi177GzANdKN3-RRijYJv_VqMpBhjUTjsEVTaov9m4AGJ5-aoYxJ__2KR8XA1S5m-2GIUlxyKmAZCLzUNcgt-kHUYOdbcMAb8y5--BUUJRdSYo8jtzdTOfsc

The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

TG6PPAx_7XDWjJZ3JTatHNPtlwP2FtURWHBHR8r7CTRmwKGJRCv8p5yIh_3aASZtpA1Qb4OrqmBlmf3HGTWMJ1bQjS88o-fskeoBVbTIfrBMNx-HwPTOg4F9GqPSJhLCgwWLeWBBAyET3HfuPwSxZUQ

This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

fmFONeiCiTYVPVVKLr3mV8LxsRBW4VjWQN0JAuGUKG7CBTOSDXah48Os_Iv-jBZwHEatySoLTvPwr0J-XphLB-2xRNp1i5XrNaQyhDgTZ0IRhpXBMU_nJ5G8z5urGGJ9JHPkRXF4kusffvpmCxVgKsw

WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
  • 304Like
  • 179Love
  • 16
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm also very curious how we will see different privileges/demands of cultural factions within each estate being handled. Presumibly there won't be a Dhimmi estate, but will muslims and non-muslims have different statuses in muslim states based on privileges or only based on cultural/religious acceptance?
 
Peasants were a diverse group will having 100,000 same culture peasant and 100,000 diverse culture religion peasants give same power to commoners estate
 
  • 3Like
  • 1Haha
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
They've already said they have other factors besides population determining estate power, so decoupling pop numbers could actually potentially make things simpler, rather than more complicated.
Some sort of 'united nobility' or 'disunited nobility' estate power modifier will likely exist, but I don't know how much deeper the mechanics will be, at least on the release of the game.
 
The king of England would, in practice, surely have moved to Paris to secure his rule over his new, larger, more prestigious kingdom, in the same way that James VI of Scotland moved to London when he became James I of England.

The Plantagenet-Valois wars were wars of kings and usurpers, not of rival nation-states. England won in the end by virtue of the Kings of England finally admitting defeat.
I feel like this mindset is somewhat contradicted by the way that William of Normandy consolidated power when he became King of England. Pretty sure the English Barons who assisted the kings of England in the HYW would want guarantees of their status, yknow?
 
  • 3
Reactions:
I made a bet for 10€, that this game won't be called "Europa Universalis 5" or "Europa Universalis V".
So if I lose the bet, I will be a bit short of cash on getting this game.
Just saying...
I made a bet for 10€, that this game will be called "Europa Universalis 5" or "Europa Universalis V".
So if i win the bet, I will have a bit extra of cash on getting this game.
Just saying...
 
  • 23Haha
  • 1Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
Peasants were a diverse group will having 100,000 same culture peasant and 100,000 diverse culture religion peasants give same power to commoners estate
I'd imagine having a diverse peasantry could weaken the commoner estate, as it would be more difficult for them to unite.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Basically all first universities were built by the church and generally the most educated class were priests. You'd be hard pressed to find a better estate to support for research and education. There are more factors, yes, but generally this is the right choice.
At beginning of that period yes, but later when modern science was born it should worked that way, let's remember than this game should reflected not only 1337, but also 1683(long after Galileo, Copernicus, Gulp ;) etc)
 
  • 5
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
On a layover now but I had to have a quick read for this week. Love that influence is relative power now, and that power differs over space.

Can’t wait for next week.

Edit: unsure if anyone else has mentioned this already but I’m glad you guys decided to change the name of the “peasants” estate to commoners. I saw the idea being mentioned a few weeks ago here and it’s good to see that’s being considered.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:
How is the total power divided between the crown and the estates relative to each other? Using the numbers from the DD as an example, if we were to grant Free Mobility to the commoners, would the Crown's power drop from 23% to 3%, or would it be recalculated across the board changing every estate's power value?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Why is it that Ottomans are called by their “european name” while others dynasties are called Karaman-ids, Eretn-ids… ?
more recognizable. same reason why Byzantine empire is not called Roman empire.

EDIT: Yes I know Rome is more recognizable than Byzantium, but they are not associated with the time period as the latter is.
 
  • 12
  • 5Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Some sort of 'united nobility' or 'disunited nobility' estate power modifier will likely exist, but I don't know how much deeper the mechanics will be, at least on the release of the game.
You could tie nobility power to variables that already exist in the game like how bountiful the provinces they control are, or how many peasants they control.
 
So Estate power correlates to the respective population but what about serfs/slaves? Like if my nobles own a lot serfs/slaves shouldn’t that empower the Noble estate relative to the other estates?
 
  • 1
Reactions: