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Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


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The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

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This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

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WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
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I'm sorry but I'm unfamiliar with the terminology. Does 'covered by checksum' mean that they don't alter the checksum and are thus allowed for achievements?
"Covered by" = "considered when calculating".

Change a UI file in Vic3, and the checksum of the game changes.
Well then that's an API design problem.
The UI of Victoria 3 is vastly more moddable than EU4's – information availbility changes gameplay, after all, and beyond that, if I remember rightly you can implement things entirely in the UI that are MP-sync-affecting.
 
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Those impact the tools you can use.

However there is no "You play Scotland so your nobles have -10 satisfaction"
To expand on the question: Will "time", laws and sliders impact the estates?
E.g. will the enlightenment (if something like this is in the game) give research bonusses to the burghers (the bourgeoisie?)

Edit: Or say a law decreeing religious oversight in schools may increase the research bonus of the clergy or give a research bonus depending on clergy and peasants and the same time?
 
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This looks promising. I have 2 questions

1-Will every member of each estate have equal contribution to estate power? For example can there be one very powerful noble in the realm or is this modeled by a concentration of nobles in a specific area?

2-And how will the number of people belonging to an estate change over time? By your policies, their well being or by the trends of the age perhaps?

1 - it all depends on what exists in the location they live in.

2- depends on the social class pyramid of your country
 
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We have already seen the borders of anatolia last week, could we get new area?

I thought you loved Anatolia?

I posted the same area as a reward to all the people who had worked so hard to try to guess the start date.
 
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At beginning of that period yes, but later when modern science was born it should worked that way, let's remember than this game should reflected not only 1337, but also 1683(long after Galileo, Copernicus, Gulp ;) etc)

Copernicus was part of the clergy. Galileo was punished for insulting the Pope (who had supported Galileo beforehand).
 
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It's looking reaaaally good. I'm hyped for this top secret game. Everything shown so far are steps in the right direction.
. Keep up the good work!
 
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If its my decision alone, achievements should ALWAYS require ironman.
This is such a silly position to hold. The veracity of achievements through ironman is next to zero. It's easy to hack the game through cheat engine, and there's even a simple program to enable the console in ironman that anyone can come across by googling "EU4 console patcher". The community of challenge runners basically requires an entire campaign to be streamed for anyone to take a run seriously because of this, and at least one content creator that I know of has gotten ensnared in a controversy when they had the ironman icon but were using console. There's also the Steam achievement unlocker and probably a bunch of other ways to get around it.

In contrast, someone who doesn't want to cheat by using the console but would like to use QoL mods while still having achievements is basically out of luck. A great example was when govcap was instituted in EU4 1.30 that required spamming courthouses, but building slot limitations meant you had to tediously go through *every* province you conquered deleting AI dockspam. This was something basically every challenge runner complained about from day 1, and the +1 buildslot was eventually given, but that took almost two full years!
 
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GUI looks salvageable maybe, just hoping there isn't 3D portraits and characters for no reason, oh and pie charts, I love me some pie charts.
 
Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.
Does this mean the size and power of an estate is irrelevant to these factors, or perhaps has indirect effect? Will certain privileges essentially add additional country wide factors?
 
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I hope the UI can be more simplistic in design with less bright colors and no cartoonish symbols and pictures. There is a very stark difference between pdx games UI where Stellaris, Hoi4, and EU4 all had good UI but then after these games it has suddenly changed with games like CK3, Imperator, and Vicky3. I hope we can see a return to a more simple clean UI that gives me the info I need without too much flair.
 
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There will not be any unique estates like that, but estates will

An estate with no pops will have no power nor impact.

Looks like your first sentence got cut off. I’m assuming you were going to say “estates will have localization” or something to that effect.
 
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How is the total power divided between the crown and the estates relative to each other? Using the numbers from the DD as an example, if we were to grant Free Mobility to the commoners, would the Crown's power drop from 23% to 3%, or would it be recalculated across the board changing every estate's power value?

No, it would recalculate all, as the peasants share is basically 1.2x of before.
 
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I wonder what would happen if I'm playing England and get an event that inflicts my Irish provinces with potato blight, greatly reducing the food production of those provinces
I wonder if that would then affect the amount of food available to the local Irish Catholic Peasant pop
I wonder if I can then choose to import food from those provinces to London
I wonder what effect that would have on my Irish Catholic Peasant estate
I wonder what would then happen to the output of my farms in my Irish provinces. If buildings employ pops, they would be undermanned
I wonder if I would be able to encourage the migration of my Scottish Anglican Peasant estate pops into those provinces to fill in the empty jobs required by my farm buildings
 
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