• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


i9u3ksuIdrnkGRpoqqS569fPV4MxZiIUi177GzANdKN3-RRijYJv_VqMpBhjUTjsEVTaov9m4AGJ5-aoYxJ__2KR8XA1S5m-2GIUlxyKmAZCLzUNcgt-kHUYOdbcMAb8y5--BUUJRdSYo8jtzdTOfsc

The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

TG6PPAx_7XDWjJZ3JTatHNPtlwP2FtURWHBHR8r7CTRmwKGJRCv8p5yIh_3aASZtpA1Qb4OrqmBlmf3HGTWMJ1bQjS88o-fskeoBVbTIfrBMNx-HwPTOg4F9GqPSJhLCgwWLeWBBAyET3HfuPwSxZUQ

This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

fmFONeiCiTYVPVVKLr3mV8LxsRBW4VjWQN0JAuGUKG7CBTOSDXah48Os_Iv-jBZwHEatySoLTvPwr0J-XphLB-2xRNp1i5XrNaQyhDgTZ0IRhpXBMU_nJ5G8z5urGGJ9JHPkRXF4kusffvpmCxVgKsw

WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
  • 304Like
  • 179Love
  • 16
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:
Please make the map colors a bit more vibrant. Eu4 was always about the horizon, exploration and adventure. Dark/pale colors don't make that come across as well as I'd like. I have this same issue with how the map looks in Ck3. The political map mode should be bright and allow easy recognition of tags. Just my preference of course.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
So more populous nations have inherently stronger estates, and will require more effort from the crown to control. The implications for blobbing are interesting...

no

total estates power can never be be above 100%
 
  • 37
  • 7Like
  • 5
Reactions:
So Estate power correlates to the respective population but what about serfs/slaves? Like if my nobles own a lot serfs/slaves shouldn’t that empower the Noble estate relative to the other estates?

slaves currently give no power
 
  • 46
  • 8Like
  • 1
Reactions:
  • 34
  • 6Like
  • 3
Reactions:
Johan, in terms of modding capability, does there have to be a one-to-one correspondence between pop type and estate? Could a pop type be split among multiple estates, or could two or more different pop types share an estate?
 
If I play a country that have a government reform that don't allow nobility, there will be another estate that will supply there bonuses or you simply lose it.

Every country has an elite class. Even a communist state has it. The name will just be different.
 
  • 75
  • 18
  • 13Like
  • 7Haha
  • 4Love
  • 4
Reactions:
Project Ceasar really ticking all the boxes for "awesome looking game" actually cannot wait to get my hands on it stick another 2000 hours in there. i imagine alot of systems are already set in stone or agreed upon but below are like my general ideas for what i feel would improve a theoretical not-eu5 game.

CK3 way of moving troops across water, make some sort of naval supply system based on convoys or total naval ship limit, sick of random ships being pulled from Australia to move troops from Dover to Calais.

add navigable rivers, the suez was an actual thing that trade flowed through, again, the CK system of paying to onboard ships works, would have to pay to land troops in the suez, then pay again to get on ships in the red sea to continue to whatever theatre they are going to, can then make owning the suez remove the fee you have to pay, and the fee that is paid from other nations goes to you, this would make owning things like the suez and the panama really worth it for money, trade and power projection. Sorry Portugal, I'm at war with you, so unless you occupy the suez, you are going to have send your troops around africa to siege down my provinces in India.


colonists should colonize on a state basis, similar to vicky 3, where once a colony is formed in a province, other nations get a malus against colonizing in that state and the colonist will continue to colonize until they have colonised the entire state, then stop. the malus would be removed if i only let the colonist colonize half a state then called them back.

more in depth feudal system, levie system etc, ck3 lite before moving to standing armies like in IR that are incredibly expensive and get cheaper over time. not every nation should move to having standing armies, maybe it should be a tech or an idea group, some nations could stick with ever larger levie armies and others would move to standing armies.


Colonists should be like an expiditionary force, made up of, at the start a small army, say 1 infantry or 2 infantry, if they are attacked or attack a native country we shouldn't able to ship 10000 people over to help, as the colony grows and you take more colonial ideas, the colonists force would also grow to better secure the area you are colonising/ want to colonise.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
There seems to be a lot of places with impassable terrain - does this mean it will be more possible (compared to EU4) to simply block passage with forts and without a zone of control mechanism?
 
From total population
can you clarify at all please? Like where a noble get's X power per noble pop the crown get's X divided by some Y for the same pop?

Dependent on laws etc presumably? Or else how would you affect it?
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Strongest nerf?
I think they see the tech penalty that may come from having an unhappy clergy as too strong. But I don't think we can make that judgement without the game.

Is it similar to EU4 where a smaller influence estate gives smaller bonuses and negatives? So presumably an unhappy clergy that is uninfluential won't harm technology? Or a stronger clergy has the potential to give greater tech bonuses if happy?

Edit: I Didn't realize it was answered in the TT.

"Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty."

Pretty good to see, gives a good benefit for building your country to strongly favor one estate to get good bonuses.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Will the estates change names for flavor reasons? Say in a peasant republic peasants could be called citizens while in a feudal monarchy they remain called peasants? Or would that be to confusing?

Edit: Already answered, didn't see it before.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: