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Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


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The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

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This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

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WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
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When we look at the map, if we are playing with any of the Anatolian principalities, the first thing we need to do is to impale Byzantium. These beyliks must have tribe estates. because the number of Turkoman urbanized in these ages was very small. most are semi nomads
 
Such tactical considerations are beneath the level of consideration for a game like this. Having a little more that the army can do, besides doing pitched battle might be a good idea, like set an ambush, harry supply lines, conduct guerilla warfare, construct defenses. Battles otherwise happen too quickly
This too would be great, ambush stances, dig in, etc, but i disagree that its beneath this type of game, napoleons invasion of italy required moving troops many miles very quickly to join a group already fighting. This type of grand strategy is exactly what needs to be in a game like this imo.

There are many ways to implement what im talking about and I think it would totally improve war time gameplay. These types of improvements are necessary so small nations can gain tactical advantages without min maxing stat modifiers and just taking out 10 loans to buy an army for a few months.
 
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I think you should get rid of any stability mechanic, stability does not make estates loyal, it's the loyalty of the estates that make the country stable, it's the lack of banditry that make the country stable, it's the corruption that makes it unsatble, etc.
 
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And if you play as China, where this is not even remotely the case, you're just out if luck. This really should have been an estate privledge, or actually not a mechanic tied to satisfaction at all because it's not like people stop researching if they don't like the government.
Johan has mentioned already that all estates contribute to research
 
Will the "crown" estate change depending on government type? I.e appear as "the republic" for republics or "the tribe" for tribes/nomads? What about if you're a theocracy - does the clergy then become the "crown" estate or do they remain seperate?
 
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no

total estates power can never be be above 100%
Hmm, maybe I'm misunderstanding the system. What I was thinking was like this: Suppose the crown has 6000 power and the estates each have 1000. Thus, the crown has 60% power. If the population of the nation were to double (say, due to conquering a lot of land) without anything else changing, the estates would now each have 2000 power, and the crown's power would decrease to 42.8% (6000/14000). Is this incorrect?

EDIT: Okay, after reading this comment, it seems the above is incorrect, since crown power also scales with population.
 
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Can the player tell the estates not to do things on their own?

Sometime after the summer .

Many factors you will learn about during the next few months

We'll talk about stability in about 3-4 weeks.

Seems future TTs are well planned out. Do you already have a list of TT topics that lasts until release? Is the number of TT topics decided by the release date or vice versa?;)
 
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Doubt it.
Definitely too early to ask, but down the line I'd love to hear what the DLC/long-term plans for this game will be*. Given that unique content has been such a big part of it for EU4 (at least after mission trees were added), the seemingly stricter, more systemic approach of this game kinda burns that bridge and leaves me wondering what we'll get instead.

*If there even is an appropriate time, given that those things do change.
 
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Will the Estates power be able to influence the nations government? So say the commoners grow too large and begin to make demands, could they influence the nation to an extreme? perhaps make a Peasant Republic? Or perhaps the Clergy can take over? A Noble family can take over in a war for the throne?

While on that Subject will there be characters such as in CK3, or Vic3? Or will we have the same system as in games similar to EU5- I mean Project Caesar?
 
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