• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


i9u3ksuIdrnkGRpoqqS569fPV4MxZiIUi177GzANdKN3-RRijYJv_VqMpBhjUTjsEVTaov9m4AGJ5-aoYxJ__2KR8XA1S5m-2GIUlxyKmAZCLzUNcgt-kHUYOdbcMAb8y5--BUUJRdSYo8jtzdTOfsc

The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

TG6PPAx_7XDWjJZ3JTatHNPtlwP2FtURWHBHR8r7CTRmwKGJRCv8p5yIh_3aASZtpA1Qb4OrqmBlmf3HGTWMJ1bQjS88o-fskeoBVbTIfrBMNx-HwPTOg4F9GqPSJhLCgwWLeWBBAyET3HfuPwSxZUQ

This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

fmFONeiCiTYVPVVKLr3mV8LxsRBW4VjWQN0JAuGUKG7CBTOSDXah48Os_Iv-jBZwHEatySoLTvPwr0J-XphLB-2xRNp1i5XrNaQyhDgTZ0IRhpXBMU_nJ5G8z5urGGJ9JHPkRXF4kusffvpmCxVgKsw

WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
  • 304Like
  • 179Love
  • 16
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:
Andorra is on the map.
Rejoice! We have achieved the first micro state in a Paradox game officially.

Andorran WC when?

Reformation is a longer process and involved many more options along the centuries from Lollards and Hussites to Lutherans and Calvinists.
Also, really glad to hear that the Protestant faith has been split up with proper names this time, and with a few extra buddies in the same boat. I’m hopeful that three other religions can finally be put to rest in Caesar.

Please split up Totemism, Fetishism, and Animism to be a more wide variety of faiths, that would be greatly appreciated.
 
You know how in vic2 you get to transition your army from an eu4 style of having a couple of armies to a hoi4 style of frontlines, I want to see something similair with the politics in 'project Caesar' like a system of mainly nobility in a monarchy or merchants in a merchant republic to a modern bureaucratic republic by the late game or a constitutional monarchy, some kind of transition from ck3 to eu4 to early game vic2 I think that would be really cool.

Can you say if that is planned on?
 
  • 2
Reactions:
The map is beautiful, and I hate to bring negativity straight away, but please move away from the mobile-game-esque clean bland modern UI and let this be just a placeholder.
It's easily the worst part of the 'visual experience' of playing Victoria 3, and I'd hate to have it tarnish what can otherwise be a beautiful gem of a game.
I agree with this. I would prefer style more similar to EU3, EU4, Hoi4 or V2, just a bit modernized and of course with new QoL features etc.
Victoria 3 UI looks kind of...bland and mobile like? Like it has no soul? Just sharing my opinion, of course.

Maybe they should make a poll/survey about this? It seems that there is a division between fans of older UI style (EU3, EU4, V2, Hoi4, CK2) and new style (CK3, Victoria 3). I'm curious what most fans prefer.

I personally like how MEIOU mod for EU3 looks like. It's like something between EU3 and EU4, but with it's own style.

EU3_MEIOU_UI.jpg
EU3_MEIOU_UI_2.jpg
EU3_MEIOU_UI_3.jpg
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I can only really hope that the modifiers make up the bigger difference. Balance of power is a tricky thing to model, but it amounts to a mixture of legal/moral authority, wealth, organization/unity of purpose, and "firepower". Honestly I'd prefer to see the power of an estate purely based on the amount of wealth it controlled (with some modifiers based on laws) than on population, which seems less important. Of course, an estate's wealth would be jealously guarded, if a king were to empty out the coffer's of one that would cause some serious discontent.

One thing I'd like to see eventually is estate "factions" with the nobles it may be between high nobles and lesser nobles, with the clergy it could be with different religious sects/heresies, with burghers there could be tension between traders and manufacturers.

Estate privileges is a good mechanic, I can see a lot of gameplay potential, like a lot about the implementation in EU4.

So prestige, espionage, research speed, diplo-rep, merchant power, production efficiency, "food production" and stability are all mechanics in the game, to be elaborated on further. I think more military modifiers with the Nobility should be included, they were the back bone of any countries officer corps, maybe more effective knights? Higher manpower you can draw from? Stronger fort defense?

Clergy makes sense for diplo-rep especially with other nations of the same religion. Research speed is interesting, maybe happy clergy will look the other way when innovations come around rather than try to squash it? I don't see any powerful estate particularly happy with the implementation of new technology. Even Burghers enjoy the current situation and wouldn't want to see anything come about to upset that. Speaking of Burghers, those modifiers sound good, as well as the commoners. I'm concerned that stability is just something that can be "bought up" like in EU4, which is a pretty cheap mechanic, please reconsider.


So market centers are something you can build? Or do they want you to go out and conquer them?

This sounds fun, could see new ones unlocked with technology, or institutions.

I like this too. It may make building a large empire more manageable. Building things in individual provinces was already a pain in EU4, with the explosion of provinces in this game (whatever that game might be) that would be even harder without some form of automation. It makes historical sense as well.

It sounds like there will be something similar to the M&T runner system? Or at least what that's attempting to model, that places that are farther away are harder to control. (BTW, loving how much of this game seems to be borrowing from that mod.) Maritime presence is also interesting, I wonder how that's related, if it relates to piracy or what. In the Mediterranean the seas were dominated by Italian merchants like Venice and Genoa, surely that bears a relation. It's no accident that early explorers were also Genoese and Venician.
I can't believe I read all of that.
 
  • 4Haha
Reactions:
A request for @Johan:
As you probably noticed people post their suggestions for changes on the map (different borders, different ownership, different names) in various places in various threads. Could you create one official thread for such suggestions? That way your team will have it easier to actually find something useful and people will know that their suggestions are at least read.
 
  • 5
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
1337

I assume you're talking about Portugal. Reducing the country to "200 years doing nothing" is wrong. The 14th century had a lot of conflict in the peninsula, even though the borders historically remained mostly unchanged. There is a lot of interesting things to do other than colonizing.
good, but will the game be balanced in terms of AI? imagine AI Portugal being annexed in the first 100 years, let's hope that doesn't happen
 
Will naval passages like the Bosporus, Dardanelles, Danish Belts, etc. be controllable? If Denmark can control the Danish Belts (at least later in the game) it gives some incentive for a country like Germany to build the Kiel Canal. It would also give some more benefits to controlling things like the Panama canal, and the Suez, and would give Russia a reason to want the Bosporus under its control, or any black sea power for that matter.

[…]

During a late game war, assuming Project Caesar goes this far, it would be an interesting dynamic to see an attacking army (for this example ottoman) occupying the (British) Suez, blocking British travel & isolating their colonies by requiring the British to go around Africa or through the pacific. It would certainly add an interesting dynamic to war, as it's advantageous to control these during wartime and could be used to create some interesting scenarios. For example, a Crimean War scenario. The British and Ottomans are at war with the Russians, and the British player boldly sails his whole fleet into the Black Sea. The Russian player can then march down, contest/occupy the entrance to the Black Sea, and possibly trap the British navy there.
What you say is very interesting. But that's a game taht starts in 1337. The canals (and the Crimean War) you are talking about are from the 19th century. Even if this game goes as far as EU4 (1821), I don't think it's a good idea to implement a mechanic for five years after almost five centuries of gameplay. There are more pressing issues. Nevertheless, it might be an idea to implement a blocking system for the straits.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
How will the tickrate be? like in EU4 it was 1 tick per day, in HOI4 its like every hour, personally i feel like that the tickrate for project caeser should be at least 4 ticks per day. the problem with 1 tick per day being that battles can take a long long time in EU4 to finish. it also limits stuff like night attacks and makes the winter feel far shorter, making the player not care for attrition
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Honestly, the lack of Janissary, Dhimmi, Cossacks, Tribes etc. estates is a big let down and reduces flavour from different parts of the world. Unless they'll be represented in some other way or it will take like 3-4 years for EUV to actually have enough flavour.
 
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:
I had 2 questions
1. will we be able to influence the skill of our heir like in expanded modpack from eu4?
2. are you going to make religions outside of Europe accurate . like in eu4 India only had Hinduism as religion while ignoring presence of Buddhism , Jainism, Sikhism and other folk religions in Asia/new world .

Now I understand that having all the folk religion would be impossible but Jainism and Buddhism were very influential across Indian subcontinent
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Will Anglican be one of those options?
Speaking as an Englishman:

Please God no – or at least, let any post-Catholic country take the Anglican approach without needing Special English Sauce.

Anglican being its own special context-free snowflake is one of the least appealing things about the Rule Britannia DLC.
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: