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Tinto Talks #5 - March 27th, 2024

Welcome to the fifth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design for our upcoming top secret game with the codename ‘Project Caesar.’


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The state is me! Oh, you meant E-state, sorry.. not me ..

Today we will go into detail about one of the core systems in the game, and talk about how estates work.

First of all, there are four estates in Project Caesar, which mostly map 1 to 1 with a social class: Nobility, Clergy, Burghers and the Commoners. There is also the Crown, which represents the state itself.

Each estate gains power based on the amount of population belonging to the estate, which is also modifiable by local attributes of where the population is, where some nobles may have very high power in a certain area, or whether a specific city has entrenched burgher rights there.

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This is the estates part of the government view, where you can see their power, current satisfaction, the equilibrium its trending toward, and what privileges it currently has.

Every 1,000 nobles gives +50 estate power to their estate, while 1,000 peasants merely give +0.05 estate power as default. Then these are modified locally in every location, as mentioned above, and then in the entire country by laws, reforms and most notably the privileges that you have given the estates.

The total power of all the 4 estates and the crown then together all add up to 100%, which is the effective power they have.

Depending on your crown power, you either get a scaling penalty or scaling bonus, on aspects like the cost of revoking estate privileges, the cost of changing policies in laws, the efficiency of the cabinet, the expected costs of the court, and other things. If your crown power is weak, you need to have the estates really satisfied, or you will not get much out of any parliament you try to call.

Each of the four estates has a current satisfaction and an equilibrium it will move towards. Some estates, and some countries, will have the estate satisfaction moving quicker to the equilibrium than others. Each estate has 2 factors per type of estate in which their satisfaction impacts the entire country, where satisfaction above 50% gives a scaling bonus, and below, a scaling penalty.

If the satisfaction is below 25%, this estate will not provide any levies. Most importantly, the estate satisfaction also impacts the satisfaction of the pops that belong to that estate, possibly creating rebel factions or even civil wars.
  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

So what impacts the satisfaction equilibrium of an estate? The privileges they get, the current stability, some reforms may impact them, some laws may, how you tax them, and much more. Some examples include clergy being happier with higher religious unity or burghers liking having more market centers in your country.

# estate privileges
Estate Privileges then? You may feel forced to grant privileges to estates to be able to tax them more, and you may be forced to grant privileges to get their support in parliament. All privileges impact the power of their estate, and many also increase their satisfaction equilibrium. They all have some impact on gameplay fitting the privilege, and often they also impact a societal value of their country.

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WiP ui, temporary graphics and no icons etc.

There are many different privileges, and many unique ones depending on where and what type of country you play.

We mentioned taxes before, and while this is not the development diary where we go into details about the economic system, it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.

Next week we will talk about a few new concepts that are rather new to this game that have not been present in previous games, as we will talk about proximity, control and maritime presence, all concepts that need to be talked about in detail, before we go into the economy system.
 
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  • Nobility impacts your prestige gain and your counterespionage.
  • Clergy impacts your research speed and your diplomatic reputation.
  • Burghers impact your merchant power and the production efficiency.
  • Commoner impacts your food production and your stability costs.

I'm not really sure about tying these resources to only one estate. I mean all estates should give a little bit of everything but also give a relatively big amount of a resource that they are really good at. For instance, burghers and nobles should increase your diplo rep a little too. Because these people usually have outside connections and they were great assets in diplomatic missions. Clerics should increase stability a little. There are many cases of men of religion dispersing angry mobs and not just creating them XD. Nobles and burghers should increase research speed too because there were many noble and burgher renaissance men alongside clerical renaissance men. It is true that many religious institutions were the driving force behind the technological advancements but they were not the only ones who were interested in technology. Yes, Copernicus and Takiyuddin were men of religion but Tycho was a noble and Galileo was a burgher.

My suggestion: Just look at imperator. Different pops give different amounts of the same resources (not as estates but you get the idea) Nobles create huge amounts of trade and research, citizens provide little bit of research, trade, and manpower, freeman provide bulk of your manpower also pay some tax etc.
 
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Cool style of map to me! Except for two matters:
1. Those coastal sea provinces curved shapes are not fitting with the rest of not-coastal sea straight lines.
2. I read Johan said it's in a FOW active zone, and even if so, but those dark "occlusion" in coast is too thick and extended, maybe a bit thinner would make it feel as land is not floating over a "plain" of sea?

And please, I will be happy if we get a dedicated terrain map mode no matter the zoom level, as seen in this one of the beautifully made land of I.R (but not having to use the macro builder).

Screenshot.jpg
 
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I am not sure if this has been discussed. Sorry if it has...

How is crown power calculated?

From the info I have received. Can I safely assume that if you conquer a new location, for that particular location you have 100% crown power at the start, and all the pops in that newly conquered land would have a modifier that nullifies their contribution to each of their total estate powers? Then this modifier will fade over time.
 
Wow, this looks amazing. Could potentially draw me back in.

Dat Cyprus, dayum.
 
Much like there are now "burghers" and "commoners", I think the nobility estate should also be split in two: to the magnates/barons/aristocrats and the "common" nobility (medium and lesser nobles). The two groups had distinct interests and the level of influence of the two groups were vastly different. The conflict between these two power groups was a core theme of the political struggles of Central Europe in much of the time period. I think it should be represented in the game.
The problem with this is that right now each estate corresponds to one pop type, and an estate's population serves as the base for it's relative power.
 
Speaking as an Englishman:

Please God no – or at least, let any post-Catholic country take the Anglican approach without needing Special English Sauce.

Anglican being its own special context-free snowflake is one of the least appealing things about the Rule Britannia DLC.
Speaking as an Englishman, I disagree. I like that Anglican is its own religion with bonuses that fit with England/GB. The only negative is that you have to wait for an event to fire rather than it being something you can tricker once certain prerequisites are met.
 
I am not sure if this has been discussed. Sorry if it has...

How is crown power calculated?

From the info I have received. Can I safely assume that if you conquer a new location, for that particular location you have 100% crown power at the start, and all the pops in that newly conquered land would have a modifier that nullifies their contribution to each of their total estate powers? Then this modifier will fade over time.
Each estate's power is determined by its population, modified by a series of modifiers. The crown's power is determined by the total population, modified by its own modifiers.
 
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View attachment 1103979
My hype grows stronger.

Out of curiosity, are the estates hardcoded, or can modders change their number? Like, if a mod decides "five estates is too much, we only need three", could they do that? And by the same token, if a mod decides "five isn't nearly enough to complete our vision, we need 10", could they do that?

Yeah
 
I am really glad to see the progress being made on the game but I can't help but make one point - although the political map is much improved from EU4, it is missing some key things such as the kurdish Emirates that did indeed exist this early on throughout Kurdistan. Even those depicted in EU4 seemingly are not depicted fully well and I can make some examples as someone who has researched Kurdistan rather thoroughly for myself.

- I am unsure if it was so at this point but Ardalan controlled the whole of Shahrazur before the Safavids and Ottomans and was entirely independent until the reign of Tahmasp I, it itself also had several autonomous regions ruled by local chiefs in places such as Bijar, Baneh, Javanrud, etc.
- I believe Bitlis should indeed exist at this point, but Thomas Sinclair's books on the regions around Bitlis and Van during the Qara Qoyunlu period (and including contextual information about the history of Bitlis and the administration of the area) should clear up some things
-It isn't visible on the map yet but I hope that Gilan is depicted correctly, I myself have researched it around this period and many small independent rulers were in Western Gilan (Biapas) at the time, H. L. Rabino's work can be referred to as well as some books in Persian. Many of these would be significant enough to at least occupy one location on the map I believe.

For Kurdistan in general I recommend checking the Sharafnama, because it is the best pre-ottoman chronicle of various kurdish dynasties' histories. Now, I am not as well versed with all of Iran and Anatolia as certain parts of it because I have focused research on some regions more than others, but I hope that my comment will be taken into consideration when coming up to the final stages of the first edition of EU5.

I don't check this account very often, but I would personally go over Persia to make sure that it is good, as I see it overlooked in so many projects.
I wrote a lot more than I thought I would, but I hope it is helpful, thanks for developing this new game. :)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, some of the spellings of the beyliks seem inconsistent, some use the turkish spelling and others don't i believe.
 
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Apart from the topic. Are we gonna be able to see Migration of Turks into anatolia as that will increase manpower of Turkish duchies(beyliks). Will Turkish duchies have some kind of agreements if they are in at war with christian country. (For example whenever Trebziond declares var or march into Canik beyliks they become united. Or There was a small crusade and Catalan mercaneries that Attacked western Turkish duchies but they allied to protect their places and beat them. And I see no Ramadanids in clicia they will migrate later (1350s )conquer and settle there. Will there be events of that? Such as Eartquake(1354) in Gallipoli bcs of this most of Roman castles had been destroyed that was on of the reasons how ottomans could advance into Balkans. And please change the name of Byzantine It is Roman Empire.
 
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