• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
Last edited:
  • 183Like
  • 83Love
  • 12
  • 8
  • 3
Reactions:
I notice that to form Great Britain the Hundred Year War cannot be active. I know you probably cannot tell us the conditions for ending the HYW, but can you tell us if it is possible to get out of it with some of your French territories, or do you have to abandon the continent to form GB? Also, if you manage to win the HYW and control all of France as England, will you still be able to form GB if that is how you end the HYW?
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Both Byzantium and Rome are in tier iV, so does that mean Ai Byzantium will not form Rome?

Why would the Roman Empire form Roman Empire? :p
 
  • 118Haha
  • 36Love
  • 30Like
  • 23
  • 8
  • 3
Reactions:
I love this new system so much, but I fear I will have the same annoyance with it as in eu4.
When I start as a difficult tiny nation and I put in a lot of effort to get that nation strong, I get attached to that country (its color, unit models and flag for example.) However, to become stronger and get the more flavorful missions, I have to form a different nations to strengthen my country. The unique aesthetics of my previous country will completely disappear. Would it be possible to add a decision to retain your previous aesthetic aspects, while allowing you to access the special laws, advancements, et cetera?
This might be an issue only relevant to me, but I swear I could remember others asking for the same in eu4. Regardless, it is a great revamp of the system in other paradox games.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:
Shouldn't Denmark be reformable? It would make sense as an achievement to get the old "Estridsen" dynasty back by starting as Slesvig and reforming Denmark.

I might lose my citizenship but.. I agree
 
  • 108Haha
  • 33Like
  • 3Love
  • 3
Reactions:
Will there be “deforming”? For example, if Great Britain loses Scotland, maybe Wales, would it still be called Great Britain? Or Two Sicilies losing Sicily or Naples?

And what if a country loses al territory that would make them that country? Would a “France” that lost all its territories except for some lands in Italy or something still be France?

And I’m assuming there will be some sort of Hungary Flavour for this, but it could also be a general game mechanic during a succession war that someone gives up on their greater title for a lesser one, like the king of Hungary becoming the Prince of Transylvania.
 
  • 21Like
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
I doubt I would ever personally aim to form any of the following but they might be nice for some players:

1) Angevin Empire (if you control both England and France, though why people would prefer this to GB I do not know).

Sure but only if it's still Plantagenet. I hate when people name any sort of Anglo-French state as the "Angevin Empire" if it's not Anjou, it's not Angevin!

Also to be honest I take back my statement of "Sure" since it shouldn't be a formable anyway. It's a collection of holdings. If the Plantagenets win the HYW they'd probably just be Kings of France and Kings of England, and frankly probably with a focus on France. If it were to be a formable it should be "Ahistorical" to reflect this IMO, since in a "plausible" world IMO they would not so easily form such a state as a unitary thing.
 
  • 10Like
  • 3
  • 3
Reactions:
I don't know if these countries count as formable, but I would like to see tags for ahistorical minority cultures like
-Arvanite,
-Aromaninan,
-Coptic people,
-Szekely,
-Griko ...
and many others that were confirmed but historically didn't have independent tag.
 
  • 16Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Romania
Caliphate
Balkan Union
Slavic Empire
 
  • 9
  • 6Like
  • 5
Reactions:
This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!
No Belgium?

Historical version:
A regional identity of 'Belgium' existed for quite a decent time already, (like the Brabantine revolution of 1790) so should be a 'plausible' formable.
With end date 1836 and Belgium existing in Vic 3, it sounds like it should make it to the formables list. (Perhaps as a revolter / revolutionary tag only?)

Ahistorical version:
Originally the regionym of 'Belgium' roughly referred to a diluted concept of the Roman era Belgica, so perhaps "Belgica" could be an ahistorical formable for the ENTIRE Low countries region (Tier Higher than The Netherlands; incl maybe parts of Northern France, Western Germany).
It would be nice if the Dutch Republic would have extra motivation to expand a bit further.

17th century reprint of 16th century map by Guicchiardini
50525a.jpg
1583 "Leo Belgicus" map
1280px-1583_Leo_Belgicus_Hogenberg.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • 16Like
  • 4
Reactions:
I aim for maximum devolution. I will conquer and release all tags in as fragmented a state as possible. I spit in the face of unification.

Sincerely,
A city-state & microstate fanboi
 
Last edited:
  • 9Haha
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I’d like to see Belgium as a formable, with the right conditions.

People meme on it, but unlike pretty much all the formables you can make in Europa games, Belgium actually existed in the time period. Briefly in 1790, then again in 1830. Not for a long time, but longer than half the countries on this list.

The game seems to treat primary culture as the unifying feature of any given state, doubled-down on with the ‘unification’ of other cultures like with Russia here. So by that framework, Belgium doesn’t make much sense. But if it’s allowable for countries to be made for religious reasons, instead of just cultural, then allowing those in the Low Countries that are Catholic to unify under threat of Protestantism makes a lot of sense, just as it did at the time.
 
  • 27Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions: