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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

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Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


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Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



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Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


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And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


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But it might be worth it…


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Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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I have my reservations about the rigidity of the tier system. Iceland was formable in EU4, probably mainly to give Norway a more appropriate name in case it gets conquered off the continent. Even if Iceland were included here as a formable (which I think it should be), this would not be possible as it would be lower tier. An exiled Norway that's forced to drop its claims to its previously held continental territories in a peace deal should be able to form Iceland.

Also, Rome not being plausible is crazy. Every nobleman in Europe with a duchy title or higher was jerking himself raw 24/7 to the thought of Rome's glory throughout this entire period. There was even a legit formation attempt in 1347!
 
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Wait @SaintDaveUK , how come Egypt and Livonia are formables? The Mamluks are called "Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt" on the map, and I'm pretty sure some of you said that if the Livonian order stops being a military order it will be just called Livonia, how does that work?
 
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Sure but only if it's still Plantagenet. I hate when people name any sort of Anglo-French state as the "Angevin Empire" if it's not Anjou, it's not Angevin!

Also to be honest I take back my statement of "Sure" since it shouldn't be a formable anyway. It's a collection of holdings. If the Plantagenets win the HYW they'd probably just be Kings of France and Kings of England, and frankly probably with a focus on France. If it were to be a formable it should be "Ahistorical" to reflect this IMO, since in a "plausible" world IMO they would not so easily form such a state as a unitary thing.
Personally I would just want the French lands to be the continental part of Great Britain so I would never form said Empire. I simply used the term for a formable of the two from EUIV that people would be familiar with, I am not wedded to the name, and even though I agree with your view that historically they would probably just have called themselves Kings of England and France (Henry VI was named thus), I suspect many people would like the option to have a special formable of the two (ahistorical as it would be).
 
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Carantania (for Slovene culture) - existed before the game start date.
Illyrian provinces (for South Slavic culture) - Napoleonic state
I'm always in a quandary here, we're actually historically somewhere in the middle between Carantania and United Slovenia. Maybe it would be best to simply call it Slovenia, the condition would be that you have control over at least 70% of the common locations in the areas of Carniola, Carinthia and Styria and that the primary culture is Slovenian. Slovenia should be the 2nd tier of formable country so that you can establish it either with Carinthia, Carniola or Styria.
 
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would be cool to add a "Lusitania" or some variant, in case Portugal ends up owning the iberia peninsula
I think that instead Portugal should be able to form a (slightly differently flavoured) Spain in that case.

"Lusitania" was the Roman province that corresponded roughly with what was to become Portugal and later became a somwhat poetic synonym for Portugal (as for example in the Lusíadas), it never stood for the whole peninsula.
Hispania, on the other hand, used to refer to the whole peninsula, and the aspiration of the Kingdom of Spain was originally to cover the whole peninsula.
 
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Hi, I have a question about last week's DD.
Do the epidemics that are hitting the new world make the playability of the native nations difficult, if not impossible? What about the balancing at this level at the moment?
 
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I suppose that the "Cross of Burgundy" as the Spanish flag is only possible if the former is somehow linked to Burgundy (conquest, PU...)?
This is the default option, but clearly the best flag
 
Interesting. Some more already existing big countries can be added as formables (for example, Hungary or France). Also,we don't know much about Cossacks estate mechanics yet but it would be nice to add Cossack Hetmanate as formable for any Cossack revolter tag , or tag with Cossack government if it controls required locations.
 
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