• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
Last edited:
  • 183Like
  • 83Love
  • 12
  • 8
  • 3
Reactions:
If Wales forms Great Britain will it be called Prydain? Can Wales form Great Britain?

Edit: Also does Arabia represent the peninsula or a union of all (or most) of the Arab lands?
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Hmm, I know that's a picture of the Boston Tea Party as a header, but I am curious to see exactly how the American Revolution will go in-game. It might have been inevitable that there would be some kind of separation, even if it was only the one that eventually happened with Canada, Australia, etc. in our timeline, but for it to happen as it did required some very specific circumstances.

For one, all of the colonies being contiguous, which is by no means a guarantee here. Also, specific protectionist economic policies leading up to it, and new ones imposed as a result of Britain's debt due to a recent war (which the colonies, as vassals, had to join), which was combined with a limit on the area of permitted settlement. Among other things, such as the political philosophy in vogue at the time. Remove any of that and it doesn't happen the same way, and that changes the whole set of dominoes leading to the French Revolution and beyond. Remind me, was that a potential "disaster" (for Britain)?
 
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:
@SaintDaveUK might I ask why Georgia is a formable country if it is already present at game start? Is this is a confirmation that the Georgian collapse will be a disaster for the country?

In that case I'd argue it is certainly within the "plausible" category.

In addition, if regional (tier 1) formations are allowed, I think countries like the Principalities of Mingrelia, Guria, etc. should be considered too.

Below: map of Georgia roughly around the start date.
Georgia in the Second and Third Quarters of the 14th C.png
 
  • 9Like
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
let's goooo

the liste of formables is oompf. So great. Tho honestly I'd like that forming new countries could spawn in new culture groups (North Sea empire for example forming (or getting a decision to form) a new culture group that includes Northumbrians, English and Scottish) besides giving some few new advances

also I'll throw my 2 cents in, them being:

the United Crowns (England / UK + Netherlands)

and Mediterranea, basically being formable by a high level humanism country that owns most lands in Greece, Southern Italy and North Africa. Yeah it's very ahistorical true, but I find the idea of a Sabir speaking, Mediterranean spanning empire incredibly fascinating and cool

Sabir being a language used by merchants in the Mediterranean and that died out in the 1850s. This language was mainly a fusion Italian dialects , Spanish dialects and Arab. And yeah, while I don't expect locations being renamed if you select that language, having this formable would be so cool

also, gameplaywise it would make both Naples and Greece / Byzantium much more interesting, as you're not railroaded into forming Italy to eventually form Rome. Greece especially would probably benefit from this, given that Byzantium isn't a formable and that it wouldn't have any further objective besides forming Greece
 
  • 7
  • 1Like
Reactions:
The Spanish "Siglo de Oro" in art and literature happenned during the 16th and 17th centuries, so having the icon for its advance be an 18th century wig (and when in fact the 18th century is famous for being one of the worst centuries for Spanish literature) is a bit jarring. That icon is inaccurate and could be better used elsewhere imo.
 
  • 10Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
I think the Caliphate would be a more historical choice than Arabia.

Edit: to the respectfully disagrees, can I ask why? Nationalism only appeared in the arab world in modern times, before that the caliphate passed through a line of empires over the ages as a source of legitimacy.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 3Like
  • 3
Reactions:
"Manchu" should be renamed to "Jin". There was never a state called "Manchu". Also surprised there's not a Chinese Empire formable but maybe that's covered by different mechanics. I doubt you just forgot to add Qing so I presume that's the case.
 
  • 13Like
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:
Glorious. Love the proper setup of tiers and game rules. Will allow for great player choice and cleaner moddability.

The more that are implemented now the easier modding will be as people will add additional flavour to existing tags instead of having 5 different formable mods with same tags.

Some quick ideas
FormableTierRule
Illyria3Ahistorical
Intermarium4Ahistorical
Occitania (if cathar exists)2Ahistorical
Maghreb3Ahistorical
Czechoslovakia1/2Ahistorical/Plausible
Belgium1/2Ahistorical/Plausible
Azerbaijan2Plausible


Also a game rule for subjects (split between normal and colonial) being able to form new nations would be great.
Belgium did exist temporaly during the games timeline, as the United Belgian States in 1790.
 
Last edited:
  • 15Like
  • 3
Reactions:
Carantania (for Slovene culture) - existed before the game start date.
Illyrian provinces (for South Slavic culture) - Napoleonic state
 
  • 9Like
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
No formable to represent a ahistorical (but still fairly plausible) union of France and England if England wins the Hundred Years War? With the game starting in 1337 you'd think it would fit the game pretty well.

Not sure how to name it. That Victoria mod called it "the Dual Monarchy" while EU4 used "the Angevin Empire", but either way it seems a pretty good flavourful option to represent a play through where you play as England and go on winning the Hundred Years War.
 
  • 6
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Also why is Romania not a formable? You could argue that it briefly existed as the union of the three principalities during the reign of Michael the brave, so it should be at least a plausible formable.

In Germany I would add Hannover (as historical) and Swabia, Westphalia and Franconia as plausible.

On the other hand, the sultanate of Rum should probably also only be plausible. It's not any more historical than the Latin empire, unless you use it for the ottomans.
 
  • 12
  • 5Like
Reactions: