I am not so sure since free MP also generates money - so I guess the impact is quite important! (early MP instead of increase over time --> more money in the early gamestages)
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I am not so sure since free MP also generates money - so I guess the impact is quite important! (early MP instead of increase over time --> more money in the early gamestages)
First, you will stop using that tone. Do you understand ? I will not suffer your childish tantrums.
Second, Lennart was referring to balancing performed on the Beta2, which is not yet released.
lol I think it's rather you who should learn to get used to critics...you're supposed to be a developper now and you're talking to a customer.
lol I think it's rather you who should learn to get used to critics...you're supposed to be a developper now and you're talking to a customer.
That wasn't criticism, that was you acting like a petulant child. Don't confuse the two. You are sadly mistaken if you think by being a customer you somehow "outrank" me or in any way entitles you to address me like that between "lol"s and rolleyes. Yes, I am a developer, but not a waiter,nor your butler. And I'd kindly advise you not to reply to me or any of the AoD team members as if we were so.
With 1.06 A3 Beta patch, I played with USSR, Italia, USA, Germany and Japan. I did some test games with Haïti.
First, you're doing a great job. AoD is closed to be the best WWII game I ever played.
The game just need some tweak to be my dreamed WWII game.
Some comments :
BO of USA overhelm all other countries. They produce too much navies and air units.
Japan need help. The war versus China doom them. They rarely attack USA and if they do, USA storm them.
Germany has a great lack of ressources. They never reach Moscow Gates and never threat Stalingrad. In 1942-1943, they collapse and crushed by USSR.
Air units take too much damage.
It's very hard to destroy the enemies convoy.
I dream about surrender condition for Axis against Allies. Axis have to conquer all Allies victory points to beat USA, UK and France.
PS : Italian do a great job in North Africa. The war between Italian and UK are perfectly balanced and sometimes Italia wins other it's UK. I love this.
First, you're doing a great job. AoD is closed to be the best WWII game I ever played.
The game just need some tweak to be my dreamed WWII game.
Some comments :
BO of USA overhelm all other countries. They produce too much navies and air units.
Japan need help. The war versus China doom them. They rarely attack USA and if they do, USA storm them.
Germany has a great lack of ressources. They never reach Moscow Gates and never threat Stalingrad. In 1942-1943, they collapse and crushed by USSR.
Air units take too much damage.
It's very hard to destroy the enemies convoy.
I dream about surrender condition for Axis against Allies. Axis have to conquer all Allies victory points to beat USA, UK and France.
PS : Italian do a great job in North Africa. The war between Italian and UK are perfectly balanced and sometimes Italia wins other it's UK. I love this.
Thanks for the feedback. But just an observation. You mentioned '106A3', that particular archive is the old version now. The most recent version can be found through the link in the first post, the filename is '106B1Hotfix.zip' . Again, just to make sure you're playing the most recent version.
As other people have noticed, the builds have suffered important changes and will likely suffer more in the next Beta. We have brushed the dust off some very old scripts.
Expect to see in Beta2 some aggressive,but balanced building, with USA,UK,Germany and possibly USSR and Japan researching,building and using paratroopers and transport planes. The absence of AI paradrops is something that's been around for too long and high time it changed.
So it is now "childish" to react to an obviously completely absurd design decision that will inavoidably affect the game in a negative way? Oh well.
@Amallric :
You'll excuse me if the equation "extra 1000 starting manpower to Germany = game-breaker" elicits a short laugh from me. I'd say the fact that the AI doesn't know how to build its own synthetic oil and rare plants is a much,much more harmful phenomenon to Germany.
The extra starting manpower was reported in the Bug forum : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?512512-1.06B1-GER-manpower-1936-scenario
It's been recognized by us as WAD, part of Andy's(Balesir) 12th December balance pack.
That was almost a week ago.
And yet nobody felt in necessary to drop a "WTF?!<emoticon>" did they?
So yes, Amallric, you are acting childsh because you are blowing things out of proportion and being rude about it in the process.Or, as we say here in Romania "You're making out of a mosquito, a stallion" ( Faci din tantar, armasar ). A mosquito that,for all you know, has since been squashed.
You'll excuse me if the equation "extra 1000 starting manpower to Germany = game-breaker" elicits a short laugh from me. I'd say the fact that the AI doesn't know how to build its own synthetic oil and rare plants is a much,much more harmful phenomenon to Germany.
The extra starting manpower was reported in the Bug forum : http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?512512-1.06B1-GER-manpower-1936-scenario
It's been recognized by us as WAD, part of Andy's(Balesir) 12th December balance pack.
That was almost a week ago.
And yet nobody felt in necessary to drop a "WTF?!<emoticon>" did they?
So yes, Amallric, you are acting childsh because you are blowing things out of proportion and being rude about it in the process.Or, as we say here in Romania "You're making out of a mosquito, a stallion" ( Faci din tantar, armasar ). A mosquito that,for all you know, has since been squashed.
I don't care much about it being gamebreaking or not since I only play the CORE mod and never vanilla. But it was an obvious dirty hack and therefore annoying. Anyway as long as it's gone in the next beta I guess I'm fine with it.
Such a major change should have been cited in the 106B1 change control log. It was not. As various people including myself have requested previously, could you please include a detailed change control with all new releases so that everyone can see -- in one place -- what has changed.
The main feedback I recall reading on the forums is that Germany is overpowered and it is way to easy to win the 1936 campaign when playing as Germany. In fact, that is the reason I created the Third Reich Mod ("TRM"). I like playing as Germany and I wanted a challenge. The Mod has over 1,000 cumulative downloads, so it seems that some other people must feel that way, too.
Of course, many threads complain that when someone is playing vanilla AoD as any country besides Germany, then AI Germany does not build its forces properly (for example runs out of MP too quickly and does not build enough panzer divisions). This implies that the problem is the softcoding of the ai/switch files. Take a look at the GER AI files in the TRM Mod and you can see how I solved the problem when Germany is AI controlled for handsoff playtesting (or if someone wants to play the Mod as Japan or Italy), with the many changes I made using the DAIM and TRP Mods for HOI2DDArma as a starting point. Simply giving an extra 950,000 men to the Wehrmacht does not seem like an ideal solution to the underlying problem.
I exclusively play the TRM and I use my own Germany.inc file so this manpower change did not impact my Mod. However, I am very concerned that if other, similar, undocumented changes were made for other countries where I use the vanilla .inc file, then everything in my Mod has been thrown out of balance. Again, I respectfully request a full change control log.
The tone of this thread has become unproductive and I do not want to get involved in any flame war. I just want to Mod and play the game. I trust that my comments above are on point and not a personal attack on anyone, but rather constructive feedback that should be provided as part of any beta release.
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I should admonish you further,you know. This change doesn't affect you since by your own admission you play only CORE. CORE uses its own files in its moddir "mod-core2", *.inc files included. So you revolt comes off as ... inauthentic.
Also, this is a beta. In the Tech Support section. For registered members. I'll repeat this as often as necessary. If we intended the releases to be public and to be judged by the wide audience on playability grounds, we would have done so. But these releases are for volunteers that take from their free time to report bugs. We are encouraged that the alpha/beta 1.06 releases have been presented by forum members as viable alternatives to 1.05, but the simple truth is that 1.06 is not yet finished even though it might look like it at first glance.
And most important. If something is declared WAD, it's WAD. End of discussion. It can be permanent (Free promotions),it can be temporary (the latest balancing, the AI script changes in particular), but what it isn't, it's being up for discussion.
You must understand that basing a mod on an alpha or beta of a patch is building castles on shifting sands. These releases are meant to detect errors, their meaning is to stumble upon crashes and other unpleasantries, not to experience the game and certainly not to base a mod on it. We're flattered by the warm welcome the 1.06 releases have received, but advertising these 1.06 releases so far as the 'go-to' version to actually play AoD does us more harm than good as people come expecting to play rather than test.
This being said, I simply cannot provide a full change log as nothing is really final, espcially regarding content that is moddable. Mods like CORE, who do use the moddir facility are safer to update to betas and alphas since they have their own scripts for everything. But mods such as yours are affected by changes in the vanilla scripts so it's simply premature to start migrating.
You do,however, have my solemn promise that we'll include all changes to the various scripts in the patch changelog when it's officially released.
It is amusing to hear you boys all throw a "hissy fit" as we Appalachians around here like to say. Now I know why my ancestors all got the hell out of there and came over here 250-150 years ago.
Anyway, it STILL would still be really nice to know exactly what are all the FN changes each time a patch comes out! Geeze! Is that too much to ask? If you boys had a real job in today's regulated marketplace, you would wind up at least fired if not in jail for violating regulatory rules in most professions.
And that is all I have to say about this.
Anyway, it STILL would still be really nice to know exactly what are all the FN changes each time a patch comes out! Geeze! Is that too much to ask? If you boys had a real job in today's regulated marketplace, you would wind up at least fired if not in jail for violating regulatory rules in most professions.
And that is all I have to say about this.
I am confused. You are asking for feedback on "balance" and yet you refuse to say what was changed.
Calm down.
This first beta release is first and foremost for modders, as we have finished changing core game elements (alpha) - so now the mods can start their tweaking on the "frozen" version that for them will be the same as release. ( they have the option to replace any DB/events files we change)
And for volunteers that would like to help to find issues.
Is it playable? yes definetly.
But dont expect the first Beta to be balanced to perfection, we have changed several core AI elements - so of course there will be tweaking.
And abou the MP increase for some majors(its not just germany): It has already be stated that the increase in MP is a step to switch to a lower long term MP gain system.
- and its hardly a gamebreaker for beta 1. ( the sovjets got a bigger bump IIRC)
We will work on getting a more detailed list of changes as soon as development and balancing calmes down a bit.
"A pdf containing changed files in 106 is included in the file. (sorry, no detailed data yet)"
notice the "yet"
So right now you have a list of changed files, which should help modders as they now know which files to overwrite/overrule - and indicate where we have been working.
Changing 1-2 lines in a beta release isnt that effective, as it will they propably change again in the next release.
As Radu stated, we will have detailed lists ready later.
This first beta release is first and foremost for modders, as we have finished changing core game elements (alpha) - so now the mods can start their tweaking on the "frozen" version that for them will be the same as release. ( they have the option to replace any DB/events files we change)
And for volunteers that would like to help to find issues.
Is it playable? yes definetly.
But dont expect the first Beta to be balanced to perfection, we have changed several core AI elements - so of course there will be tweaking.
And abou the MP increase for some majors(its not just germany): It has already be stated that the increase in MP is a step to switch to a lower long term MP gain system.
- and its hardly a gamebreaker for beta 1. ( the sovjets got a bigger bump IIRC
)We will work on getting a more detailed list of changes as soon as development and balancing calmes down a bit.
"A pdf containing changed files in 106 is included in the file. (sorry, no detailed data yet)"
notice the "yet"
So right now you have a list of changed files, which should help modders as they now know which files to overwrite/overrule - and indicate where we have been working.
Changing 1-2 lines in a beta release isnt that effective, as it will they propably change again in the next release.
As Radu stated, we will have detailed lists ready later.
... and for anybody who really wants to know the difference between the old and the new files - download Notepad++ and do a file compare. That´s how I did it for the CORE mod, looking through misc.txt and ideas.txt. And what did I find - an error that I had introduced into the mod a couple of versions back!
Happy New Year
T.
Happy New Year
T.
Given AoD's design philosophy I think that Lennartos' post makes sense. I'm currently testing CORE for AoD and I have to say that the team over there is running Radu ragged on just such modding issues.
I should perhaps also say that I've never found testing a public beta to provide a satisfying game experience. Rather, it's typically a litany of frustration endured to help provide an improved gaming experience in the future - sometimes quite a while in the future. On Gringo's particular point, I think that's one of the most common frustrations - but it is possible to comment on whether or not the game has become more or less balanced in its newest iteration without knowing how that has occurred.
I think that's where the roles of the public and the professional testers diverge - it's up to the mug testers like me to alert the pros to whether things are working or not, and then down to them to fine test and figure out why.
I should perhaps also say that I've never found testing a public beta to provide a satisfying game experience. Rather, it's typically a litany of frustration endured to help provide an improved gaming experience in the future - sometimes quite a while in the future. On Gringo's particular point, I think that's one of the most common frustrations - but it is possible to comment on whether or not the game has become more or less balanced in its newest iteration without knowing how that has occurred.
I think that's where the roles of the public and the professional testers diverge - it's up to the mug testers like me to alert the pros to whether things are working or not, and then down to them to fine test and figure out why.
Playing France I noticed that Germany is keen to attack the Maginot line (Strasbourg) in great force in 1939/1940. WAD?
Also the German invasion of Norway is brilliant. Paratroopers and all! Kudos.
Also the German invasion of Norway is brilliant. Paratroopers and all! Kudos.
Those attacks are WAD for the current state, but something we intend to change. Because forts can be destroyed by land combat, it is possible, at great cost, to reduce the Maginot Line and break through,which is what the AI is doing. The losses are significant,though, so with the new "largefort" (it's misspelled "largefront" in the changelog) variable for the AI we can instruct the AI to be more cautious around forts by increasing the odds needed for a successful push.