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Dev Diary #14: Sieges

Greetings again future Conquerors! Welcome to another Development Journal! I’m Bas, who also wrote the Development Journal on Ancient Wonders. This time, we’re not looking at cracking open Ancient Wonders for treasure, but rather, we’ll be looking at cracking open Cities! I’ll be talking about the new Siege System in Age of Wonders 4!

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Cities in Age of Wonders are the core of an empire’s economy, which in turn fuels their war machine. Having one of your cities taken is therefore a huge blow and in the case of someone’s capital, could even result in a player losing or winning the game.

In Age of Wonders 3 players had to make sure they always had armies close to vulnerable cities as they were not defended by default. In Planetfall, we had garrisons to make sure cities and sector bases were defended at all times. However, it added a lot of extra units to already huge fights with exactly the same layout, making players tired of fighting these kinds of battles and auto-resolving them. It also couldn’t stop a player from launching surprise attacks and overwhelming the garrison in a single turn.

Age of Wonders 4 offered us an opportunity to sit down to tackle and improve upon these points. Our aim was to give defenders time to respond, to add more variety to City battles, and to not use the Garrison system to cut down on the amount of units involved in battle.

In the end, we came up with the Siege system, where defending players can invest in structures that help to delay attackers and affect the battle map. Attackers in turn have to lay siege to the cities for multiple turns in the world map where they can invest in Siege Projects to bring siege engines to the battle, or otherwise counter some of the defenses the city has, before they can launch a final decisive battle!

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Let’s go back to those defensive structures for a minute, we’ll get into the siege itself later:

Some of the coolest and most appreciated parts of Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall’s City battles were that certain structures such as turrets would be represented in battle. In Age of Wonders 4, we tried to go a step further! We now have several categories of Defense Structures that will be represented in the Siege battle:

  • Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it. Furthermore, they are represented as different obstacles in combat! Palisade walls are wooden obstacles with low health, but Stone walls are Fortified obstacles with a lot of health that are tricky to take down. The latter also will have less breaches at the start of combat. Making it easier to funnel the attacker down killzones!

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  • Tower Defense Structures are the turrets of Planetfall. They spawn units during combat alongside the walls with incredible range and will automatically fire upon attacking units. There are even some more special Towers that instead cast magical buffs or even heal nearby defending units.

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  • Battlement Defense Structures create special obstacles on the positions just behind the wall that benefit the Defender in some way. They often buff Ranged attacks, and can specialize further in buffing Magical or Physical ranged attacks. Such as units gaining extra range, more accuracy, or straight up setting target locations on fire with their attacks!

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  • Support Defense Structures add special modifiers to the combat, often in the form of Combat Enchantments! They can do things like spawn Caltrop obstacles in front of the walls. Forcing attackers to go through Slowing and Sharp terrain which inflicts bleeding on them as they try to pile through the breaches!

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All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.

This is visible to everyone as long as you’ve discovered the city, so it’s handy to scout out enemy cities before moving in to know what kind of time investment you’ll need to make! If you have a good eye, you can even spot the kind of walls they have by looking at the city model.

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Alright, enough about the defender preparing. Let’s look at the attacking side!

You can start a siege simply by initiating an attack or move order on a hostile walled city! You must do this with at least one hero available in the army who will be leading the siege (Marauders are exempt from this rule, yep, that’s right, infestation stacks can and will siege you!).

A prompt will ask you if you wish to start a siege, and a time estimation in turns is given. Pressing Start will begin your siege!

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In the first turn of sieging, you have a nice overview of the Fortification Health of the city and its defense structures. Every turn during a siege, the Fortification Health (wall icon) will be diminished by the amount of Fortification Damage (broken wall icon) you deal. Until Fortification Health reaches 0 at which point you can initiate an attack!

Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
Siege Projects are specific actions the attacker wants to undertake to take out certain defenses of the attacker, speed up the siege, construct siege engines or employ something else like stealing population from the besieged city, they often come at a cost and take up a Siege Project slots, which you can get more of through empire skills.

As the attacker you can select which Siege Projects you wish to undertake only in the first turn of the siege, at which point they will be locked as your armies are executing your plans. In the case of Siege Projects that speed up a siege, they will contribute extra Fortification Damage done per turn.

This was set up in a way to have siege projects be more effective when a city is heavily fortified, creating a different balance between cost and effect per siege.

Headlong Assault for example, which contributes +5 Fortification Damage on top of the base 10 Fortification Damage, will reduce siege time with a city of 30 Fortification Health by 1 turn. But in a city with 120 Fortification Health, it can reduce it by 4 turns!

All empires have access to a multitude of standard Siege Projects, but more can be obtained through tomes or even Ancient Wonders. Such as a displacing effect from the Tome of Mayhem’s Sow Confusion siege project, or the Soul Siphon siege project from Tome of the Reaper to gain extra souls upon completion of the siege and gain Zombie units in combat.

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While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

Be aware though that this leaves the defender with opportunities for counter attacks by catching you outside of reinforcement range! This lets sieges be more dynamic.

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Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.

A defender can see what Siege Projects are being taken against the city and how long the siege lasts. They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.

While this is going on, Defenders can also rally defenders from other places, Rally of the Lieges and Empire Rites can often prove handy in these situations to raise a quick army. Defenders can still freely move defenders in and out of the city.

We’ve tried restricting movement for defenders in besieged cities but found it too restrictive for the defenders to raise a proper defense. This allows defenders to actually undertake successful relief efforts and keeps attackers more on their toes.

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Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle! The battle map is a lot more grim and ridden with destruction than previous city battle maps. After all, a siege has now taken place and breaches have appeared in the walls! These breaches form perfect funnels for the defender to exploit. But the attacker can, if they brought the right units, spells or siege engines, create their own additional breaches by attacking the walls!

Next to that, City Defense Structures and Siege Projects can also affect the battle map as described! Siege battles can now really look different depending on what has been undertaken by both defender and attacker.

SiegeExample1.jpg


As for the battlemap. It’s always challenging to create a city map that is balanced yet not samey, look grimey yet not unreadable. What me and Sara have done primarily is realize a vision of a battered city wall, a last bastion of defense, by littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching.

Most of these are decorative to create enough space for the players’ massive armies. And we’ve created custom lighting to contrast the units and line of wall obstacles from the background decoration!

Speaking off, Wall obstacles count as cover, making targets count as Obscured when they shoot over them. However, if defending units stand on the intact battlement hexes, they get to ignore Obscured as they have the high ground!

SiegeExample2.png


Next to this, breaches will already appear at the start of battle, unlike in previous Age of Wonders games, as you’ve been besieging these cities for a while. These are generated in a controlled way to create killzones for defenders, but with the occasional unfortunate breach that allows fast units to break through quickly!

If you’ve brought siege engines or units with Demolisher, you can also easily create new breaches in the walls that are still intact, or destroy enemy towers or battlements if they have any.

SiegeExample3.jpg


So, there you have it! Sieges do away with the micro-intense cat and mouse movements of the old games. Instead creating more trust for players to venture out with their armies. Giving them enough time to come back to, or raise new armies in defense. While attackers can employ tools to counter defenses or instead aim for more economic damage than outright city conquest. I hope to see and hear of many epic siege battles deciding the fate of empires on the brink of destruction or victory. Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!


We are only two weeks from release! Stay updated on all the AOW content!
 

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Quick question, which might alleviate some of the concerns folks have. As the attacker, do you absolutely need to wait until the siege fortification is broken to begin the battle? Or can you begin the battle early, but the defender will just have more of their defenses intact? Otherwise what's the point of the defensive structures, if they're typically all destroyed by the time the siege starts?

This is a little awkward from an immersion standpoint, I agree. Gameplay-wise, the point of the defensive structures is that they still provide bonuses to the defender for the first few turns.

My biggest concern with this system is that small armies might no longer be able to defend against larger armies. It was fun in AoW3 to have a city with 3 ranged units and a support unit be able to hold off a full army of 6. It felt like a proper defense.

With this system, the defender may need to bring enough forces so that the walls don't go unmanned, otherwise the attacker will just move to those positions and get the advantages for themselves. If flanking is just as easy against a castle as it is on any other map, it seems that would counter any defensive bonuses. Maybe this will be fine though, I'm excited to try it out either way. One good thing is that I don't recall any streamers complaining about sieges in their preview builds of the game.
 
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It does not matter if the guy is a pro player or whatever, i was playing tourneys at aoe3 and 2 and i had incredible shit takes at that time about the game and still know high ladder people that still play and still does, just because i grew accustomed to what made it's mp scene, sometimes a mechanic feels like a loss when it changes, but it ends much better.

The 4x3 stack never felt good regardless if made you feel good about "numbers advantage" or not, 4x games have always an "artificial rule" of how much stuff can fight at once so 3x3, 6x6 or whatever it can be all the same depending on how the game work, but just giving a straight massive advantage as having so many extra units is really crazy to see, even worse when it's hooked on a weird movement mechanic like that, def my least favorite thing about mp on these games, but whatever the topic is not about that so i don't know even why we're talking about it.
I meant numerical advantage is really important in MP and most humans are smart enough to use correct army formation so your comment regarding 6 stacks being easier to beat than 3 stacks applies to SP only
 
when a player defends his worst cities instead of the best ones then its not bad game design but bad player.

if you station all your units in your smaller cities, meanwhile your capital is empty then i will conquer it.
No, you can't conquer large city in aow4 because it will take 8 turns despite it is literally empty. It does not make sense for both game play and realism, that's why I called it bad design. In planetfall I have an army defend 4-5 colonies during turn 20, in aow4 it can be enough to defend your whole empire all game since you can have 4-5 cities even on turn 119 due to city cap. Planetfall system is still better because attacker captures the colony instantly, but with actual army especially vs capital
 
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My personal opinion: At the moment I am unsure if I prefer this siege system or the militia system from planetfall. I would have to actually play the game to decide that.

However: If this actually results in slower-paced Conquest, then I would definitely consider this a feature, not a bug. I acknowledge that how fast-paced conquest should be is a matter of taste, but I prefer a slower pace.
 
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I meant numerical advantage is really important in MP and most humans are smart enough to use correct army formation so your comment regarding 6 stacks being easier to beat than 3 stacks applies to SP only
It does not because even in mp considering both player set-up perfect the attacker only fight 1 hard battle and if he wins he fights now up to 5x2 and snowballs out of control, that's what the late game of this game was in mp as far as i experienced, unless you alpha striked random cities you ended on that every time, maybe that is why you guys are so adamant on this change, because you also remember this part of the game being so weak in the first place.
 
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Not more skillful than making 3 elite stacks and eating any amount of enemy stacks just because your less developed opponent can't get to work his own numeral advantage. And yes, I'm very doubtful that devs completely removed abusable things like regeneration, regrowth or regen/resurrection after win in the combat.
We do outright know there won't be stalling to regenerate health in won battles, all healing is temporary HP lost at the end of battle. And given that choice I'm skeptical there are any other permanent restoration options in combat itself.
 
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It does not because even in mp considering both player set-up perfect the attacker only fight 1 hard battle and if he wins he fights now up to 5x2 and snowballs out of control, that's what the late game of this game was in mp as far as i experienced, unless you alpha striked random cities you ended on that every time, maybe that is why you guys are so adamant on this change, because you also remember this part of the game being so weak in the first place.
Then I don't understand why you like the change. Alpha strike is not possible now, attacking several cities at once does not have any sense as you split your army without much benefit, enemy still can produce units in sieged cities.
 
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Then I don't understand why you like the change. Alpha strike is not possible now, attacking several cities at once does not have any sense as you split your army without much benefit, enemy still can produce units in sieged cities.
Because they already replaced the weak systems that produced that snowball in the first place, and you don't even know if what you're complaining is true, that's why i am challenging your opinion, you're complaining about the balance state of a game you think you know because you spend X hours playing whatever the hell and you came back with really weak points to tell us about it as far i see, when the only thing i know is this cool as hell new system that i will love to play with players or AI, because it's simple interesting not because I predicted a make believe balance state on my head. That's the problem.
 
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Because they already replaced the weak systems that produced that snowball in the first place, and you don't even know if what you're complaining is true, that's why i am challenging your opinion, you're complaining about the balance state of a game you think you know because you spend X hours playing whatever the hell and you came back with really weak points to tell us about it as far i see, when the only thing i know is this cool as hell new system that i will love to play with players or AI, because it's simple interesting not because I predicted a make believe balance state on my head. That's the problem.
New system does not mean good system, especially for some players. I disable diplomacy, disable victory conditions and my whole game is about capturing cities, devs ruined it in aow4. Doing nothing with heroes is not fun for most players I believe. Why didn't devs at least remove requirement to have a hero in siege???
The siege system removes all play styles except one (have 3 stacks as attacker together with a hero), especially with city cap and vassal token.
 
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The system work on a hp pool, small cities apparently can even have 0 hp, so you can assault without waiting a single turn, and the game provides a ton of things to interact with the hp and the tactical battle, who knows, maybe even a spell can exist that lower hp of cities too, so you can do the "hit and run" tactics people want, but actually saying old system is better, there is simple no way, old system was just a glorified battle which you always massively cheesy or got cheesy by AI and on Multi, that is so bad honestly, it was cool since there was no other alternative but comparing the 2, there is just no way.

Not saying the old system is better, I am looking forward to the new system if newly founded cities with 0 defense don't get an arbitrary waiting period before they can be taken. If you abandon a city you literally just founded you really should expect to lose it very, very swiftly. A well fortified city is different, but I don't like the idea of plopping cities down all over the map and having an arbitrary time limit before they can be taken. I hope everyone is right about that not being the intention. The devs said there is no base level of fortification, but afaict nothing about any arbitrary waiting period.


People are comparing to planetfall, not to aow3.

AoW3, not Planetfall. Wasn't interested in Planetfall's theme.

This will actually make the game faster for some people. Now I don't have to spend 8 turns fortifying a city against units summoned one turn away from my cities. I can just build walls and move on.

I think this siege system is pretty cool. Especially since you only have to siege if there are walls. But I like siege battles, so maybe my opinion is uncommon.

As below, I hope that is true. In that case I have no issue with it.
According to the developer diary, walls must be built to force the attacker into a multi-turn siege. This means that the hit and run strategies that people are complaining about being removed haven't actually been removed. If a player has unwalled cities, you can still do your old strategies.

That's awesome if that is correct! Honestly that is really what I am looking for at the end of the day. I do like this new system, just a bit unclear what exactly happens with unwalled cities and so forth.


So, if a city has no walls and no units acting in defense, does the siege skip the combat and go straight to the city capture phase?

That's the question right now.
 
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From the DD above:
Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it.
All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.
Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle!
Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!
If your city doesn't have walls, then it doesn't have fortification health and any unit will be able to occupy and take over the city.
Hope that helps!
 
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Seems to work very similar to Endless Legend and Humankind, which is cool. While I don’t mind attacking cities directly as a normal battle, I do enjoy an extra layer of strategy where my cities (or conquest) are involved. Good to see, imo.
 
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Yeah, because now even slowpoke has a chance to react somehow. Most issues with invisible units comes when somebody mess up the recon.

I actually cover my territory pretty well with true sight units. Problem is, online pvp players only like u created more problems for us players that fight against the ai.

By turn 40 or 50, the ai now has built multiple great palaces, fully researched all their tech trees and is trying to ram their way to your throne city with 30+ shadow stalkers and has cast the age of deception.

The rogue buffs only made rogue ai even more of a nightmare all because players complained that rogue as class was too "weak".

Something like a stun aura or frost aura really shouldn't be freely available on something that has 60% phy res.

Rogue ai don't need to sneak around and nail undefended cities, they just charge down at full power like a warlord and pray the enemy didn't build enough priests. I seen the ai beg me for an alliance, I accepted then rogue ai killed the archdruid ai two turns later. Archdruid ai didn't do anything to the rogue.

I survived the attack cuz my leader was away from the throne city. Rogue AI's assassination failed cuz of that despite taking my throne city + 3 other cities.

The priests is on the way to purge the rogue ai of heresy. That's when I found out how disgustingly buffed the assassins is now. It basically sacrificed nothing and gained everything lol

I have retaken two of my cities back so far out of four. I took back my throne city :)
 
New system does not mean good system, especially for some players. I disable diplomacy, disable victory conditions and my whole game is about capturing cities, devs ruined it in aow4. Doing nothing with heroes is not fun for most players I believe. Why didn't devs at least remove requirement to have a hero in siege???
The siege system removes all play styles except one (have 3 stacks as attacker together with a hero), especially with city cap and vassal token.
I mean if you are that inflexible, what can i say really? Wait and see i guess?
 
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No, you can't conquer large city in aow4 because it will take 8 turns despite it is literally empty. It does not make sense for both game play and realism, that's why I called it bad design. In planetfall I have an army defend 4-5 colonies during turn 20, in aow4 it can be enough to defend your whole empire all game since you can have 4-5 cities even on turn 119 due to city cap. Planetfall system is still better because attacker captures the colony instantly, but with actual army especially vs capital

The example where it takes 8 turns is without any siege projects, no siege units, and what looks like a fairly built-up city defence. (with several different buildings dedicated to this)

If you add the headlong assault it will cut it down to 6 turns. You can cut it down to less than 4-turns just by using siege projects (with no dedicated siege units, or other kind of support) And that's the default siege projects (we don't know what special ones can do) and you can also gain more siege projects, and presumably better ones.

The intended idea seems to be that if you want to take a fortified city you're going to have to bring a siege army. Which is precisely the point of walls, etc. in the first place.
 
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Not really, I played with mod which made AI stronger so the whole map was covered in cities and AI had more cities than me.
I'm sorry to say, but you shouldn't expect a balanced or agreeable experience playing a modded game on a map that is clearly too large. Your yardstick seems way off. We're not even talking about the same game here, even beyond the usual considerations of single and multiplayer.
 
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With the way the felines’ tails were wagging during tactical combat in the dev stream, I’m not sure I will be able to play as any other form now, lol. Didn’t notice the rats’ tails in earlier streams for some reason. Will have to check again.
 
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