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Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
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Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1134319
The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
View attachment 1134322
Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
View attachment 1134324
Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
View attachment 1134325
View attachment 1134326
View attachment 1134378
Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
View attachment 1134456
Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
View attachment 1134335
The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
View attachment 1134336
This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
View attachment 1134381
This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
View attachment 1134340

And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
I love this! I'm from València and I really liked these maps, it's great to finally see the Crown of Aragón get some historical culture map, especially cause the aragonese language is often underepresented in històric games.
Some things:
-The Kingdom of València should have the Governation of Oriola as a separated province instead of it being part of Xàtiva.
-Due to the conquest by Jaume II of the kingdom of Murcia, the catalan language was spoken there for close to two hundred years, until the Castillian repoblation after the plague, you might want to look at that, specially to add it in the culture map as stripes or something alone those lines.
-Third, this is just a question:
Will the game be localizated into either the catalan or the aragonese language? We would really apreciate it!

Thanks for reading!
 
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Congratulations on the effort you have put on the map. I wanted to make some contributions to improve the map of the Kingdom of Valencia.

1- External borders: The municipality of Santa Creu de Moia should be added so that the Racó d'Ademús does not appear to be hanging by a thread. The reason is that, although it was conquered by Castile in 1183, it was part of the bishopric of Sogorb from 1232 to 1960. Another municipality that was part of the Kingdom of Valencia historically was Cabdet (Caudete), although because it is an enclave and due to its size it may not be feasible to represent it in the game.

2- Provinces: the ideal composition would be 4 provinces representing the 4 historical governorates (Castelló, València, Xàtiva and Oriola). Internal borders should be modified. Between Castelló and València the limit was the Uixó river; between València and Xàtiva, the Xúquer river, and between Xàtiva and Oriola the Biar-Bussot line.

3- Locations: Llucena should be called Sogorb due to its historical importance as the seat of the bishopric. Villar "del Arzobispo" is the name it receives from 1795, the historical name is Villar "de Benaduf", but I think it should be called Llíria because the Villar only receives the name for being where the Archbishop of Valencia had its summer residence but not its seat, Llíria on the other hand was a royal town with the right to vote in the Courts. I also share the opinion of other comments that Alacant should have its own location, since as the game progresses it will gain importance towards Oriola.
If the borders between the provinces are redone, Xàtiva should absorb a large part of Ayora, in what is now Xàtiva-Dénia Gandia should be created to represent the ducal city and seat of the Borja palace, the family that later would become popes.

4- Cultures: Morella was repopulated by Catalans, so the culture should change. Oriola-Alacant should also be Catalan for the same reason. It will not be until the plague epidemics of 1648 and 1678 that Oriola would go from 10,000 inhabitants to being practically depopulated and would be repopulated with Castilians. Outside the Kingdom of Valencia, the locations of Murcia and Cartagena (Cartagènia in medieval Catalan) should also have an important part of Catalan settlers, since it was repopulated by the Crown of Aragon. It would not be until the 1400s and 1500s that Spanish would become the predominant language in Murcia and Cartagena, respectively, due to the new waves of settlers arriving from Castile. Finally, the location of Alcañiz should also have many Catalans since half of its territory corresponds to Matarranya, which was an entirely Catalan-speaking area.

5- Raw goods: without knowing too much about the importance of each good, I will only say that in Oriola a large part of the income came from the salt mines of La Mata.

Sorry for the length and hope that some input can be taken into account.​
 

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Is there also a mapmode for total population of all "provinces"? I think that would also give another cool overview later in the game instead of zooming in to each individual "location" and it can help catch any weird numbers from another angle.
 
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But if iberia has 9M in 1337, before the black death, will the game be able to simulate population growth until the 1800s realistic? The dates which game last, world population was around 1 billion. So can you say black death will kill half of population in europe? Or it will more easy for us to defeat plague

I'd say 40-60% from Black Death. There are many other diseases that kill of pops, famine and war is not exactly kind to population numbers either.

Luckily, humans tend to enjoy making babies, and pre 18th century adult women gave birth to 4-6 children on average. Even with a high rate of child birth, populations tend to rise over time with those numbers, even with the Four Horsemen paying semi-regular visits.
 
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I have some issues with northen Portugal. First off, why is there this panhandle in the Guimarães location?
1716023812480.png

I don't have historical sources, but I'm from Vila Real and lived here all my life. The areas between Vila Real and Chaves are much more related to both of them than to Guimarães so I would just remove the panhandle and split the middle between the two of them. If you ask any person who lives in this middle areas today, they'll say they're from Trás-os-Montes, not Minho. Also, from a geografical point of view, the areas between Vila Real and Chaves are valley(ish) whereas to the west, between there and Guimarães there are 1000+ meters montains. I don't see any reason why this would be different in 1337, but If it was please tell me.

Another small issue is that the Moncorvo location is too big and extends too far north, I would put Mirandela roughly between Chaves and Bragança.

Other think is the absence of the city of Braga which has always been an important location in Portugal, I would maybe replace Barcelos with it.
"After the dispute with the See of Compostela, Pope Innocent III authorized Braga's jurisdiction over Porto, Coimbra and Viseu in 1199, as well as over five dioceses in Spain."

To finalize, I think Portugal should have some montains, at least in the Serra da Estrela region but maybe also in Trás-os-Montes.

(I was trying to put sources here, but it was not letting me)
 
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I'd say 40-60% from Black Death. There are many other diseases that kill of pops, famine and war is not exactly kind to population numbers either.

Luckily, humans tend to enjoy making babies, and pre 18th century adult women gave birth to 4-6 children on average. Even with a high rate of child birth, populations tend to rise over time with those numbers, even with the Four Horsemen paying semi-regular visits.
I'm unsure whether this has already been mentioned or not, but will there be a sort of 'natural' ceiling that populations cannot exceed depending on the size and type of location? Some locations seem to be much bigger than others, and with different types of climate, topography and terrain, this means that some locations should naturally tend towards being much more populous than others. I'm thinking of 'available farmland' in Meiou & Taxes, which allowed for high population growth when the White Horde was expelled from eastern Ukraine and the sparsely populated but very fertile lands there could be settled by an sedentary, agricultural society instead of a nomadic one.
 
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I wrote my bachelor thesis on the Cistercian development of their lands of Alcobaça (from the 12th to 19th century). In my opinion you should split Leiria into two one being Leiria and the other being Alcobaça. The Cistercian order owned and developed their lands of Alcobaça greatly, both in agricultural, fishing, but also logging industry which was sent to Lisbon build ships for the royal fleet. The cistercians of Alcobaça were great power factor in Portuguese politics and the economy, which should be represented at least in the possible location of Alcobaça. The monastery of Alcobaça was also the royal library and a resting and replenishment place for many travelling lords and also for crusaders taking the sea route around the Iberian peninsula. For the potential new location of Alcobaça I would suggest olives, wine or lumber as the raw resource.

Leiria is known for the "Pinhal de Leiria" which is a big forest which was planted in the 13th century, therefore I would argue to instead of fish, then have lumber as a raw good in Leiria.


TLDR: Split the Leiria location in two; Leiria (lumber) and Alcobaça (olives/wine/lumber).

If you have any questions feel free to ask :)

Also, I would suggest at least one location with horses in Portugal, maybe in one of the Alentejo locations.
 
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Im curious about the state of Madeira, the Açores and the Canaries. Though they were only colonized in the early 1400s, I wonder if their colonization is lead by events somewhat railroading it or if it is possible either Iberian power can fully take them over before another does.
I ask this because securing all three sets of islands would basically guarantee dominance for one nation in the first few decades of the Colonial game if not nearly a century. If the player makes a committed economic and military effort in securing such a crucial early footstep they should be rewarded by mechanics for having the foresight to do so and making sacrifices for it.
 
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To finalize, I think Portugal should have some montains, at least in the Serra da Estrela region but maybe also in Trás-os-Montes.
I agree, Portugal was rarely attacked from the Minho and Trás-os-Montes due to its difficult terrain.

The Serra da Estrela mountain range should be in, not a single army in history has passed through it, they have always gone around it. Historically there really only two good "invasion" routes of Portugal, the one south of the Serra da Estrala, which follow the Tejo river and the other is through the flatlands of Alentejo.

A little detail about Trás-os-Montes, it literally means "Behind-the-Mountains" (from a southern perspective), and historically it has always been quite isolated because of this. So it would be nice to also show it on the map :)
 
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Why has been chosen for an oceanic climate for the north of Portugal and Galicia, while in reality it is a Mediterranean climate (Csb)? (It seems too big an oversight for it to be coincidental)
Because to put it simply, it is NOT a Mediterranean climate.

For starters, Csb is not even found anywhere in the Mediterranean, it's found in the Atlantic Coast of Europe, the American Pacific Northwest, southern coast of Australia, and central Chile. Basically, Western-facing oceanic coastal areas at temperate latitudes.
And neither does it host Mediterranean biomes, but Oceanic ones.

Now, Koppen-Geiger models Classifies it as "Mediterranean" purely for convention and technicalities that don't even make sense.
So, "Mediterranean" Csb has the exact same temperature criteria has "Oceanic" Cfb across all year, unlike the actually Mediterranean Csa which has hot summers.
The only difference is the alledged "Dry Summers" of Csb, which classifies them as Meditterranean.
I say "alledged" because the criteria are the following:
Csb: At least three times as much precipitation in the wettest month of winter as in the driest month of summer, and the driest month of summer receives less than 40 mm
Cfb: No significant precipitation difference between seasons

Do you see the problem here?
Say for example Santiago de Compostela, it might be the 3rd wettest place in Europe, only marginally behind Norway and Scotland, but because it has a single month barely under 40mm (July, 36mm) , and that is over 3 times less than their whoping >160mm November, it classifies as "dry summers" and thus mediterranean.
Meanwhile places like Logroño which are classified as "Oceanic" have 3 months bellow 40mm, June, July and August, (including down to 29mm in July), but because they are also dry in the winter, with a mere 71mm in November, they get classified as "No dry season" and thus Oceanic.


Realistically speaking, Csb should be labeled "Wet Winters Oceanic" and not "Dry Summers Medditerranean", but the model wanted to be consistent with the nomenclature, and thus we get a misleading label.

Paradox very wisely chose not to take a technicality at face value and actually be realistic about it.

Mediterranean.png
 
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1- For Bizkaia region, shouldn't be Vascongadas? Bizkaia refers only to the Lordship of Vizcaya, which compress the current territory of the province of Vizcaya, while the rest had other denominations.

2- I would love to know how you calculated the population. In some cases, like Cataluña, i think it's clearly overpopulated; at that time it was esteemed to had like 500k inhabitants, while i'd seen in the map near 800k.
 
Magnificent maps! It’s only missing one detail for now, and it’s a location named “Falalalan” and with “Falalalera” culture somewhere in Navarran Pyrenees where the music that has tormented us by centuries was first sung.

Jokes aside, I have to say I cannot be happier for the enthusiasm put and the rigorous/accuracy that is being pursued in this Europa Uni... secret project and shown us in TT/TM. I have some feedback (mainly around La Rioja but also some in the rest of Iberia) from yesterday’s TM that I try to write it as tidy as possible to make things easier.

I am pleasantly surprised that Laguardia location (Rioja Alavesa) is being taken into account, I believe @Aldaron is from Bilbao and that might have something to do with it. And of course @Pavía and the rest of the team. Good job!

At the end of the post I leave some biography that I searched in case it helps.​


#1
Sierra de la Demanda Mountains between Calahorra and Ágreda locations and River Queiles.

Val river and then Queiles river flow eastwards from Ágreda to Tarazona. The Sierra de la Demanda mountains in their most eastern side are between Calahorra and Ágreda, and produce a natural barrier between these two locations. My point here is just aesthetic, since I believe the connection of Calahorra and Ágreda locations should still exist but representing a bit more of the actual mountains. The Moncayo mountain wasteland should also increase it’s size.

Image1_8a.jpg

In green the increased wasteland size.


#2
Pass from Logroño location to Aranda de Duero and Lerma thought Sierra de la Demanda

This is just positive feedback for what I think it’s an accurate representation of the pass from Logroño location to Aranda de Duero and Lerma locations though Najerilla river valley (Logroño -> Nájera -> Anguiano -> Viniegra -> Mansilla -> Villavelayo -> Canales de la Sierra) to the Castilian plateau. Although I would change that instead of Logroño-Aranda locations connection, it would be Logroño-Lerma connection because the connection is more direct and natural towards Lerma, and from there, then yes, to Aranda de Duero.

Image2.jpg

I have colored Lerma a bit more to be the one location connected to Logroño, instead of Aranda.


#3
Climate, topography and vegetation of La Rioja and surroundings.

Climate in Logroño, Laguardia and Calahorra locations is all perfect, since it is in the limit of oceanic and cold arid, but it’s more towards Burgos and Álava oceanic than to the arid Zaragoza continuation of the Ebro valley. It's a closed and upper part of the Ebro valley, so clouds and rain get stuck more than say Zaragoza, where it's more open arid climate.

Topography is all perfect too, since both Logroño/Laguardia and Calahorra locations are very flat territories of the Ebro valley and in between sierra de la Demanda to the South (Sistema Ibérico mountains) and sierra de Toloño to the North (Montes Vascos mountains) it fairly flat.

About vegetation, I believe Logroño and Laguardia should have woods. Right now it is all cultivated lands around Logroño, Laguardia, Nájera and Santo Domingo de la Calzada, but there are accounts that these flatlands had woods at a much greater density, probably as a prolongation of the vegetation from the mountains that surround these locations as seen in pictures [5], [6] and [7] that i leave at the end of the post.

Calahorra, is a more open valley (farther from mountains and lower) should be grasslands or sparse, not woods. In the biography I leave a link [2] to a map of the Ministerio de Transición Ecológica where there is the distribution of forests from 2008 date, and even taking into account this is a map from now, there were a lot less cultivated land around these Logroño and Laguardia locations and in consequently more forest mass. As said, Laguardia and Logroño should be woods from this source, as a big part of their locations are occupied by “frondosas” vegetation. The opposite for Calahorra, that lacks that coverage of "frondosas". I hope it can be useful for the rest of actual Spain (wish it included Portugal too). BTW farmlands in Tudela is very accurate due to its famous fertile land.

Image3.jpg

Laguardia and Logroño as woods, and then Calahorra as grasslands.


#4
Culture distribution around La Rioja.

It’s very accurate that there are Basque population in La Rioja in 1337. The majority of villages in Logroño location (Rioja Alta) have Basque toponym, and it is known that i.e. Nájera, Haro, Ezcaray… had great influence from Basque and Navarran nobles (Nájera even Kings, Kingdom of Nájera) so consequently Basque culture population presence in the game.

In fact, the first appearance of Spanish or “castellano” language is in the Monastery of San Millán, in Rioja Alta, in the form of annotations in Glosas Emilianenses [4], which also contains annotations in Basque along them.

By looking at the stripes I cannot compare density of Basque in Logroño location (Rioja Alta) and Calahorra location (Rioja Baja), but definitely Logroño had greater influence of Basque culture so it should have more of this population than Calahorra.

In the other hand, I would put Castilian stripes in Laguardia since it’s the same valley and Logroño and Laguardia are just a few kilometers away. There should be definitely some Castilian population in Laguardia by 1337 representing the mix of people around this border region.

Image4.jpg

Some Castilians in Laguardia representing the mix of cultures around this part of the Ebro valley between Sierra de Toloño and Sierra de la Demanda.


#5
Trade goods distribution in La Rioja.

I find accurate that wine production in Logroño and Laguardia locations is present. It is estimated that since Roman times this region cultivated wine for own consumption, until Fifteen Century when started to have surpluses and were sold to other markets, mainly Basque Country, since further away regions had their own production centers near. It’s also correct that there is wheat production in Calahorra because the climate there is slightly change, so wheat grows better than wine.


#6
Province belonging of Logroño and Calahorra locations.

Historically, the term of La Rioja first appeared in the Eleventh Century to refer to the region that actually is Rioja Alta, which corresponds to Logroño location in the map. After some time, Rioja also ended being referred for Rioja Baja, which corresponds to Calahorra location in the map. The sources about province split between Burgos and Soria Provinces are correct for the Eighteen Century, but in reality the Ebro river and valley has a big impact and as Logroño (Rioja Alta) is mainly dependant to Burgos Province due to Castile, I would put also Calahorra to Burgos Province for a 1337 time and the rest of the game. They both are in general better connected to Burgos than to Soria, even from Calahorra, and its natural connections are along the Ebro valley to Rioja Alta and then Burgos. Moreover, taken into account wastelands added in feedback #1.

Other options are to include both locations (Logroño and Calahorra) into Navarra or make a new province named La Rioja having Logroño, Calahorra and Laguardia. Although, I think it’s more accurate to use the first option to make both part of Burgos, as shown here in this sketch.

Image6.jpg

Calahorra location included in Burgos province together with Logroño location, instead of in Soria province.


#7
Name of the location of Logroño.

The name (or capital, I don’t know exactly how locations work) of the location of Logroño should be Nájera, more important than the first by this time of 1337, as can be seen in the bibliography [1] in the map of page 89, of number of windmills by location, being Nájera win by a lot in number against Logroño, that only has three. Logroño is my born city, but to be realistic at 1337 Nájera had more relevance mainly because of the Kings of Navarra, until the end of Fifteen Century, by when Logroño being a walled city was unsuccessfully sieged by the French in 1521. Apart from this, any of the following two options could be ideal only if they fit and/or are going to be used in other parts of the world:​
  • Name the location Nájera, and plan an event in the Fifteen Century that this location is renamed to Logroño. Could also work for many other locations in the world.​
  • But even better this other option; name Logroño to Rioja Alta, Calahorra to Rioja Baja, and Laguardia to Rioja Alavesa.​
If either of the two options are too much, just leave it as Logroño, since in about 100 years and for the rest of the game Logroño will overthrow Nájera as the main city in this location.

Image7.jpg

Rioja (or Rioga) term has its first references in Logroño location around eleventh century, 200 year prior to the game start.


#8
Wastelands in Iberia.

I think that apart from the wastelands drawn around La Rioja in feedback #1, some of the other can be improved or even created new ones as I show in the following map compared to a physical map, and then explained by letters down below.

SuggestedWastelands.jpg
PhysicalMap.jpg


a) Same as in feedback #1.​
Image1_8a.jpg
b) As seen in bibliography [8] Serra da Estrela is the highest mountain range in continental Portugal, and it’s a natural communication barrier between Coimbra/Viseu and Guarda/Fundão. I would create a new location out of Guarda named Fundão, a town that became important after the expulsion of Jews from Castile and Aragon Crowns. The created wasteland would make the connection between those locations different and disconnected from some. I leave a zoom in here.​
Image8b.jpg
c) As western Maestradgo is reflected (Sierra de Albarracín, the highest mount Pico Caimodorro,1936 m), it should be eastern Maestradgo (Sierra Turolense, the highest mount Pico de Peñarroya, 2028 m).​
Image8c.jpg
d) Also part of Maestradgo and Catalan pre-coastal range, there should be a wasteland in Tortosa that impossibilities connection between this location and Alcañiz.​
Image8d.jpg
e) This is just to improve and detail/granulate the Pyrenees, since right now I think they look too blocky. It’s just an operation to remove some part to resemble the real valleys than enter the wasteland, and improve a bit those valleys of Andorra, Vielha and Llívia.​
Image8e.jpg
In red those parts to substack to resemble the valleys, and in green those to add to increase wasteland density inside the Pyrenees.



Here the referenced bibliography/links from above:
[1] A compilation about medieval history of La Rioja. García de Cortázar, José Ángel. "Estudios de Historia Medieval de La Rioja".​
[2] A forest map of Spain from data of 2008. It can help together with other sources the fores areas in Spain. I hope it included Portugal too.​
[3] Information about Basque derivation names of villages in La Rioja.​
[4] Glosas Emilianenses where first early attestations of both Proto-Spanish or Castilian and Basque.​
[5] Picture of actual Laguardia in the same game location, where you can see all the cultivated land, until the orography allows, when then there is a lot of woods and forest.​
[6] Picture of Labraza, very close to Laguardia where you can see all the cultivated land between woods, and the same as Laguardia until the orography allows, when then there is a lot of woods and forest.​
[7] Picture of Santo Domingo de la Calzada in Logroño game location, where you can see all the cultivated land, until the orography permits, when then there is a lot of woods and forest.​
[8] Serra da Estrela is the highest mountain range in continental Portugal and it’s a natural communication barrier between Coimbra/Viseu and Guarda/Fundão.​

Very good job! Keep it up!​
 

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Amazing maps, I'm so looking forward to playing this game! Just a couple of questions and a few comments that I hope can help :)

Religions:
  • Is religion an "either/or" thing? Meaning, the province is either religion A or religion B? Or is it population-dependent? Meaning, more than one religion can co-exist in a location, and the one with the most followers is the dominant religion?
  • If it's the second, would the migration of pops between different locations impact your religion? It would be so much fun to see how different actions (like launching inquisitions, becoming a theocracy, building monasteries, etc) would affect religion distribution.
  • Also, in that case, a percentage of pops in capital cities of Iberia would follow Judaism, as an estimated 400.000 Sephardic Jews lived in Iberia during the 14-5th centuries. The history of Medieval Castille and Aragon with religions other than Catholicism is not the prettiest, but would be interesting to have related events. For example, the 50.000 Jews conversion to Catholicism as a consequence of the "Massacre of 1391" (Joseph Perez, Breve historia de la Inquisición en España, 2012). or an event in 1492 (with the final acts of the Reconquista in the capitulation of the Nasrid Emirate of Granada, and with the Alhambra decree) that could offer the possibility of ordering the expulsion or conversion of "pagans" (Muslims and Jews).
Locations map:
  • If the Catalan locations are based on the old "Catalan Counties", it may be more historically accurate to rename some of them. The names "Lleida", "Vic" and "Vilafranca del Penedès" are the cities or capitals of the regions. The region for "Lleida" would be "Urgell", for "Vic" would be "Osona", and for "Vilafrance del Penedès" it would be "Penedès". The name of "Manresa" stopped being used as a County in the 12th century, it may be more accurate for that region to be named "Cerdanya" instead.
  • However, if the Catalan locations are based on the Vegueries map, it would be more accurate to replace "Talarn" (city) for "Pallars" (vegueria), "Manresa" for "Berguedà". As with the counties, "Vic" should probably be "Osona", are Vilafranca del Penedès and Lleida would be correctly named. I'd agree to divide Tarragona to include Montblanc!!
  • It would be interesting to have some kind of event with the locations of Chinchilla and Villena, with the option of transferring Chinchilla to the Crown of Aragon as "Almansa" due to dynastic ties, and/or the culture of Villena changing to Portuguese. Why? In 1395 the area of Chinchilla was split from Villena and transferred as Almansa to the Crown of Aragon, within the Kingdom of Valencia. In 1996 Villena started receiving exiled Portuguese nobles (who had helped Enrique III against Juan I of Portugal) to the point that the local nobles were completely displaced (Aurelio Petrel Marín, "Entorno a la incorporación del Marquesado de Villena a la Corona de Castilla", page 79)
Terrain map:
  • You could consider changing Vilafranca del Penedès from Flatlands to Hills, as Barcelona and Tarragona are separated by the Garraf Massif. a mountain range up to 660m high with cliffs that reach the Mediterranean waters (Mapa Cartogràfic de Catalunya, May 22, 2010)
  • The Iberian Peninsula of the time was much densely covered in woods and forests compared to modern times. According to the article "Iberian Forests: Structure and Dynamics of the Main Forests in the Iberian Peninsula" (Pablo J. Hidalgo), originally 90% of the Iberian territory was covered in forests, and at present coverage is only 15%. Deforestation began in early medieval ages, so it shouldn't be 90% in this map, but definitely denser. I would suggest to slightly increase the woods coverage and slightly change some of the current wood areas to forests (specially in the northern regions like Galicia, Asturias and Basque Country).

Trade Map:
  • The locations of Chinchilla and Villena maybe should be within the Barcelona Market, as in the 1300s these areas were exempt from paying customs tax to the Kingdom of Valencia to promote trade. The economy of Chinchilla relied more on the trade with Valencia than with Murcia/Seville (Aurelio Petrel Marín, "Entorno a la incorporación del Marquesado de Villena a la Corona de Castilla", page 79).
  • I am SO HAPPY to see Salt in the area of Tarragona, as the nobles from Cardona were so rich due to the salt trade that they were known as the "kings without crown" :)
  • I am not sure I understand "Fish" as the main trade good in Barcelona. While fish was an important part of the economy, Barcelona (unfortunately) was one of the main ports of slave trade in Europe. The slaves were mostly taken in military campaigns from the southern shores of the Mediterranean (The Middle Ages Series: Slavery in Medieval and Early Modern Iberia, Phillips Jr). However, if we considered that slaves were not "produced" in Barcelona, then the oldest and most reputed goods being manufactured in the area were weapons (high quality swords and knives), leather worked in the Arab technique and high-quality locally-manufactured textiles (Catalan Commerce in the late Middle Ages, Maria Teresa Ferrer). Note that the textile industry started to be the main engine of economic activity in Barcelona starting on the 1300s, and was consolidated in the late 1300s and early 1400s. Another item instead of fish could be Naval Supplies, according to the same article the manufacture of tallow and pitch were used in the naval industry and was one of the products constantly present in the 13th century exports of Barcelona.
  • In the 14th Century, due to its climate the Kingdom of Valencia was an important producer of Oriental Spices (like cumin and anise seed) and sugar (Catalan Commerce in the late Middle Ages, Maria Teresa Ferrer), maybe one of the locations should represent this?

I hope this helps! You are doing such an amazing job with this game, I can't wait for release!!!
 
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islam is split between the same 3 isms again

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As a Muslim, I mean at this point there wasn't any difference between the madhhabs (Schools of Thoughts) within Sunnism same as it is today. So there is no need for Sunnism to be divided. The only difference is mainly the fiqh, this is how one understands the Quran/Sharia and also another difference is where you keep you hands when you pray lol.

Ibadi is only prevelent in Oman.

But in Shi'ism there was a huge difference between Zaidis, Ismailis and Jafaris/Twelvers for instance. Theological differences even, especially which Imams were canonised (think of them as Saints in Christainity basically, this is not prevelent in Sunnism).

But Shi'ism amounts only for like 10-15% of Islam, only prevelent in Iran, Iraq, Yemen and at this time central India (Sunni being a huge majority). So why split Shi'ism gameplay wise? It makes sense in CK3 where its more character focused.
 
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First of all, congratulations, because this looks truly impressive. I really hope there's enough flavor for the Iberian realms when playing in the region.

Second, are local population numbers final? Because I think 133k people in Barcelona is too much, even before the Black Death (and famine, civil wars, etc). This (Catalan Wikipedia) article for instance says the city would be around 40k to 50k at the game start.

Of course, if the system also including the inhabitants of the countryside and hinterlands it would be higher, but then it would be necessary to raise the population overall, which could be problematic.
 
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you cannot represent the heterodox nature of islam in anatolia, different approaches to sufism between anatolia and syria egypt with a mega sunni bloc. without ashari, maturidi without hanbali, maliki, şafii, hanafi and without shias branches there can be no confessionalization with the rise of safavis or organically. i dont care how low your hand goes when standing or how high your butt goes when you sajda, i just want age of reformation be not reserved to only europoors as islam went through a confessionalization process aswell
 
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Fair warning, I am no expert. If any wiser minds wish to correct me, I strongly encourage it.

In bright pink, new locations, with yellow highlights for the existing provinces where I felt was needed for clarity.

Locations_FB.png


Here's my humble attempt. I split provinces that:
  • Were too large compared to neighbors;
  • Had an important place that should maybe appear in the map;
  • Just looked nicer at a glance.
So here's the list as labeled in the map:
  1. Braga: not much more explaining to do beyond what my fellow patriots have all reitirated, massively important city at the time.
  2. Ermelo: I just wanted a location here to make the border look nicer, but it seems the Ermelo was granted foral way back when the kingdom declared its independence. I also has a smaller name than most of the alternatives.
  3. Mirandela: Moncorvo was a bit too large, Mirandela fits nicely here and was granted foral in 1250, first fair in 1295.
  4. Figueira da Foz: to break up Coimbra, but also an important port for both fishing and shipbuilding in the region at the mouth of the Mondego river, which was navigable during the game's timeframe.
  5. Seia: important castle before the beggining of the game, but received multiple forais in the following centuries too.
  6. Sabugal: another important castle, guarding the frontier against the beloved neighbors to the east.
  7. Covilhã: as others have mentioned, extremely relevant during the time, many navigators and other figures hailed from here.
  8. Óbidos/Alcobaça: Either of these would fit here, Óbidos a walled city (even nowadays!) and Alcobaça an important monastery with its clerical lands. I would vouch more strongly for Alcobaça though.
  9. Sintra: important castle, foral in 1154, basically a playground for the elites to run away from the heat in Lisbon with multiple convents, estates and the such. Had a sephardite community at the time which might be worth representing.
  10. Sertã: Crato was stretched too thinly, and Sertã was also certainly relevant enough at the time anyway, so it fits the bill.
  11. Almeirim: splits up Santarém, but like Sintra was a playground for the elites in Lisbon (hunting and stuff), would even become the location of a royal palace until 1755's earthquake brings it down to rubble.
  12. Serpa: splits up Beja, important castle at the frontier.
  13. Mértola: splits up Ourique, was important even during muslim rule, in part thanks to its port in the Guadiana river.
  14. Mogadouro: splits up Moncorvo further, important castle at the frontier, given to the Templars at first and then to the Ordem de Cristo.
  15. Silves: Lagos was important, but so was Silves and its river port, especially during the age of discovery, even if its importance eventually waned with the centuries due to the silting of the Arade river which left Portimão as the main city in the area in modern times.
  16. Amarante: gets rid of Porto's finger poking at Vila Real, was also religiously important due to pilgrimages after a saint (São Gonçalo d'Amarante) settled here.
  17. Coruche: unsnakes Avis, but also got a foral in 1182 just after the kingdom's independence.
  18. Montemor-o-Novo: fortified settlement elevated by foral in 1203. At the time most of the people lived within the castle walls within the first centuries of the game's timespan apparently!
  19. Montalegre: fixes Chave's shape; upon the kingdom's split from Leon, it was the part of a whole array of defensive structures on the border. Was granted foral in 1273, within living memory at game start.
  20. Besteiros (modern day Tondela): makes Viseu a bit smaller, a quick search online didn't yield me much insight but its status of municipality lasted until the 19th century.
  21. Olivença: as others have noted, it is the only major border change in Portugal during the game's timespan.
  22. Idanha-a-Nova: was an important town in the region, initially given to the Templars. Also splits a still somewhat large Castelo Branco.
Some notes:
  • The borders of the provinces straddling the Tagus could coincide with the river, since we all love too see that, but also helps make the province borders look a bit less jarring.
  • Miranda do Douro, not Miranda de Douro.
  • Lisboa, not Lisbon, as you've already pointed out were fixing.
  • Viseu, Évora, maybe Viana do Castelo could maybe be split as well, but I'm not sure how. Added to map!
  • Chaves has a weird shape but I couldn't quite figure out how to change that. Porto too has a weird finger poking at Vila Real. Added to map!
  • I don't see the need for wastelands in the northern regions, the terrain might be rugged but aside from Serra da Estrela I don't really see an impassable zone anywhere to a degree that would justify it. I do agree that adding some mountain terrain is not out of question, though.
  • As others have noted, giving Olivença its own location would be funny, if not for the meme alone. Added to map!
Borders aside, I won't bother describing climate as you have your own sources for that, though the additional (provinces) locations might help in matching it better to climate maps.

I can try looking for goods, but most of these provinces will have some kind of agrarian activity which you probably will want to balance to your taste. Three thoughts though:
  • Esgueira produces Olives, I'd vouch for Salt.
  • Moncorvo does have considerable deposits of Iron, it is marked as Tin in the map, though you may have your reasons for this.
  • Leiria is home to a monoculture of maritime pine which was initially used to protect against the coastline's advance, but would eventually become a big source of wood for the ships that let Portugal take to seaward expansion. I'd give it Lumber instead of Fish.
Also, I'd like to thank you for including Sado's and Tagus's estuaries in the physical map, as they are strangely absent in most Paradox titles. I don't even think they need their own sea zones (though I wouldn't mind it either), I just like to see them included.

This project truly looks like a labour of love, I can't congratulate you guys enough on the work you've put into this so far. If you any questions or doubts about what I wrote above, I'd be more than glad to help if I am able to. :)


Edit: As some have noted, indeed Olivença was the only major border change in Portugal's continental borders, and it should be included as a location.

Edit2: After looking at some more feedback from other users here, I've added some more locations to fix some oddities. I've updated the map and removed the red letters to unclutter it.

Edit3: Here's my take on the provinces, since it seems unfair of me to change locations all around without taking care of the ramifications on the province borders. Blue numbers are for naming, purple ones are for locations in the province:

Label:
  1. Entre-Douro-e-Minho
  2. Trás-os-Montes
  3. Beira Litoral
  4. Beira Alta
  5. Beira Baixa
  6. Estremadura
  7. Alto Alentejo
  8. Baixo Alentejo
  9. Algarve
Locations_FB_province_overlay.png


Since I don't recall any (dis)advantage in having larger provinces, I am not opposed to keeping Beira Alta and Beira Baixa merged, keeping all three Beiras merged, or keeping Alto Alentejo and Baixo Alentejo merged. If you do keep Alentejo merged, you may as well call it Odiana or Entre-Tejo-e-Odiana, as it was the name used for good part of the game's timespan. Then it would look like:

  • Entre-Douro-e-Minho
  • Trás-os-Montes
  • Beiras
  • Estremadura
  • Entre-Tejo-e-Odiana
  • Algarve

My only real issues with this are Beira Baixa having only 4 locations (you could further split Castelo Branco I suppose?), and Alto Alentejo having 11 locations (actually it's 10, I can't count, made sneaky edit :) ), could be fixed by merging one or two of the locations I added as suggestions.

Edit4: There are two 14s in the locations map, I'll add the missing one to the list. :rolleyes:

Edit5: After looking around for any mistakes, I've remade the map with hopefully clearer borders. I split the second 14. location between 11. Almeirim and Crato, as it felt like grasping at straws giving Tramagal or Pego a location at this point in time. Instead, I split Idanha-a-Nova from Castelo Branco to give Beira Baixa 5 locations.
 

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