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Tinto Maps #20 - 27th of September 2024 - The Steppes

Hello, and welcome one more week to the weekly encounter for map lovers! This week it’s also directed at horse lovers because we will be looking at the Eurasian Steppes, plus the Urals! So let’s start with the maps without further ado.

Countries:
Countries.jpg

Colored Wastelands.jpg

A glorious, Golden Horde! It is at its power peak, under the reign of Uzbeg Khan, so it's a much more menacing presence for its neighbors. However, it has its some internal issues that need to be managed, as you’ll notice in some of the maps, and in the future when we talk about the content for Hordes. The Golden Horde also heads its own IO, the Tatar Yoke, as shown in a previous Tinto Maps:

Tatar Yoke.jpg

We have already corrected the Ruthenian countries that are under the Horde’s Yoke, although we still have to correct the Russian principalities, which will be done in the corresponding Tinto Maps review. We’re also aware that we need to improve a bit the coloring of the IO, to mark not only the Golden Horde as the overlord of these countries, but also that Muscovy holds the title of the Grand Principality of Vladimir, which makes it the ‘enforcer’ of the Yoke. These fixes are also planned to be done in a few weeks.

Societies of Pops:
Societies of Pops.jpg

Societies of Pops 2.jpg .jpg

A bit up to the north, we have some Societies of Pops! This means that the territory of Western Siberia won’t be empty land, but will be populated by these people, which can be interacted with.

BTW, I’m not showing this week a dynasty map because, well, only the Borgijin dynasty rules over the lands of the Golden Horde, of course!


Locations:
Locations.jpg

Locations Western Siberia.jpg

Locations 3.jpg

Locations 4.jpg

Locations 5.jpg

Tons of locations today… You might notice that the density location is in a progression from west to east, from the most densely settled areas to the less settled ones. You may also notice that we’ve followed a design of ‘settler corridors’ in Western Siberia, setting those parts of the land that were habitable, usually on river valleys.

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Provinces 2.jpg


Areas:
Areas.jpg


Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain is interesting here, as there are two main ecological areas. The first is the Steppes, Flatlands with Sparse and Grasslands vegetation, with either Cold Arid or Continental climates. And then we have the Siberian Arctics Forests, which are completely different, of course. On a note, the Urals were set as Hills, as they’re a quite settleable area, but we’ll probably make a review with your feedback, and add some mountains there.

Development:
Development.jpg

The whole region is not very developed, you might notice the difference with India, from last week’s Tinto Maps.

Harbors:
Harbors.jpg

There are some harbors in the Steppe region… In the Black Sea and Caspian Sea, of course! As usual, we’re open to feedback on this matter.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Plenty of cultures! One note: Although we planned to work on the religious and cultural minorities of the region during the summer, we ended up not having enough time to add them. So what we’ll be doing today is showing the rough outline of ‘cultural spheres’, and then we’ll add the minorities during the review of the region. In that sense, feedback is very well received.

With that said the only note that needs to be made in terms of the cultural design is that we divided the Tatar cultural group into some differentiated regional cultures, being Crimean, Mishary, Kazani, and Astrakhani. We’re also aware that some of the cultures, as Mari and Chuvash, might be a bit displaced, as noted in the Russian Tinto Maps, so we’ll review and correct that with your feedback.


Religions:
Religions.jpg

Regarding Religions, the matter is a bit worse, as the big Sunni blob is just because the main religion of the Golden Horde is Islam, after the conversion of Uzbeg Khan, but that’s obviously incorrect. Also, as we have been able to forecast development time on how Pagan divisions will be during this autumn, we will make a comprehensive review of the region as well, to get a good distribution of ‘Shamanist’ Paganism, Tengrism, and Sunni Islam.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

Raw Materials 2.jpg

Raw Materials 3.jpg

Regarding the raw materials, the Steppes have plenty of Livestock and Horses, quite logically, although there are regions with some other goods. And up to the north, the main materials are Lumber and Fur. Apart from that, I want to mention the mineral hub in the Ural Mountains, with plenty of Copper, Iron, Gold, Lead, and Coal. That makes it a very mid and late-game interesting spot, and playing as Muscovy/Russia, I’ll tell you that you definitely want to expand into that region, as it will fulfill some of your material needs by that time.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

Markets! Big region, with lots of markets, although you may noticed that we changed the coloring of the locations that have 0% market access, which is the case in several areas. In any case, the market centers are Kaffa, Astrakhan, Saray-Jük, Kunya Urgench, Samarkand, Almaty, and Chimgi Tura. BTW, these names are much easier to notice in the game’s UI, as they’re beside the market centers:

Markets 2.jpg


Population:
Population.jpg

This week we’re showing only the country population mapmode, as there are some location numbers here and there which are failing, due to the already known issue with our pop editor (and which are on the way to be fixed). In any case, the whole population of the region is around 6.5-7M, of which around 6.3M are part of the Golden Horde. As I said, it’s a menacing country…

And that’s all for today! This is going to be my last Tinto Maps in a while, as I’ll be on vacation for 3 weeks during October (you might have noticed that I didn’t have any during summer), so one of the Content Designers in the team, @Roger Corominas , will step in and be in charge of the next 4 Tinto Maps. It’s in good hands, as Roger is an Experienced CD, who has been working and focused on Project Caesar for more than 3 years, at this point (this is why you might not know him from EU4, as other CDs in our team). In any case, he will be starting with the regions of Xinjiang, mostly ruled by the Chagatai Khanate, and Tibet.

I’ll keep reading and answering you during next week, and then I’ll be back in a month from now. See you!
 
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Did some more research on the Chusovaya to resolve that area better. The steppe area is very dubious and the borders are not exact, if any Kazakh or someone who knows of tribal history could chime in that would be great.
is it for sure Mongol? or it can be Kipchak? in Ural province
 
is it for sure Mongol? or it can be Kipchak? in Ural province
Something not-Kipchak, perhaps related to the Khakass Askiz culture.
Analogies to the burials of Aznaevsky-2 are found not in the forest-steppe Bashkortostan, but in the steppes of Orenburg and Western Kazakhstan. In the 13th century, an ethnic group of people from Sayan-Altai settled in the Southern Urals. The burial and memorial structures of Butak-3 [Ivanov, Lyubchansky, 2003. P. 235], Simbirka [Lyubchansky, 1995. P. 185], Bolshoe Ozero-1 (mound No. 11) [Ivanov, Lyubchansky, 2003. Pp. 231-232, 235], Novy Kumak (mound No. 1-1972) [Krieger, 1983. Pp. 171-187], Sukrakovo-2 (mound No. 3), Tselinny-3 and others belong to this type. The authors of the excavations unanimously dated these burials to the 12th - early 13th centuries, or, in broad terms, to the 13th-14th centuries (i.e., early Golden Horde and simply "Golden Horde" time). The connection of such burials with the Mongol invasion and the period of the formation of the Golden Horde is recognized by all researchers. The bearers of the Askiz culture appeared in the steppes of the Southern Urals no earlier than the first half of the 13th century and not of their own free will, but as part of the army of the Genghis Khan [Yaminov, Garustovich, 1999. P. 188]. These could have been Turks, natives of the Sayan and Altai mountains, or other ethnic groups associated with the Mongols.

In the Republic of Tyva, on the Yenisei River, stone burial mounds from the end of the 12th - first half of the 13th centuries (Aimyrlyg-2, burial mound No. 1-1, etc.) or the 13th-14th centuries (Saryg-Khaya-3, burial mound No. 1-2, etc.) have been studied [Dluzhnevskaya, Savinov, 2007. Pp. 161, 164-166], in which the heads of the deceased lay on saddles. In the Khemchik-Bom-6 burial ground, we again find the remains of birch bark from a saddle behind the head of the deceased and unpaired stirrups. Experts attribute the monument on the Khemchik River to the middle of the 13th century and believe that it was left by the Mongols [Grach, 1975. Pp. 219-226; Dluzhnevskaya, Savinov, 2007. P. 162-163], just like the Yenisei complexes and other burial sites of the Sayan-Altai. But such examples attract us not so much because of their ethnic characteristics, but because of the similarity of the elements of funeral rites. The similarity in the details of the ritual practice of the burial sites of the Southern Urals and Sayan described above allows us to hope for further results of comparative analysis and success in the search for archaeological parallels in the remote territories of the Great Belt of the Eurasian Steppes.
 
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Did some more research on the Chusovaya to resolve that area better. The steppe area is very dubious and the borders are not exact, if any Kazakh or someone who knows of tribal history could chime in that would be great.

Something important to consider regarding Keraits and Naimans is that they were probably mostly assimilated into local cultures by this point, basically disappearing as an identifiable group by the mid-late 1300s, with their main body in Mongolia becoming the ancestors of the Oirat confederation. It's probably best to represent them as a (significant) minority with a generic Mongol or Oirat culture.

I can't really speak on Kazakh history, but interestingly around 1400 the Oirat group of Keraits (Torghuts) lived along the Black Irtysh with their furthest boundary at Lake Zaysan, so the Keraits you marked on the map are probably the ones who assimilated/were assimilating into Turkic culture
 
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Something important to consider regarding Keraits and Naimans is that they were probably mostly assimilated into local cultures by this point, basically disappearing as an identifiable group by the mid-late 1300s, with their main body in Mongolia becoming the ancestors of the Oirat confederation. It's probably best to represent them as a (significant) minority with a generic Mongol or Oirat culture.

I can't really speak on Kazakh history, but interestingly around 1400 the Oirat group of Keraits (Torghuts) lived along the Black Irtysh with their furthest boundary at Lake Zaysan, so the Keraits you marked on the map are probably the ones who assimilated/were assimilating into Turkic culture
I'd beg to differ, considering they have their own burial rite distinct from the Kipchaks. And the year in question is very important as it was this generation under which Islamization began, which was the unifying force for the new Tatar indetitites. That and the fragmentation of the Golden horde. So in 1337 in specific I think Naimans and Keraits may have still been a distinct people, and they are mentioned as such among the people of the Shibanid ulus from what I have read so far.
 
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The Sheibanid ulus was everywhere. I found an interesting website with maps that are not searched through a regular search engine. There is a poor-quality image where this ulus is marked both in the north and in the south. In the south, red hatching is marked. In the north, a small solid line in the 13th century, and a dot-dash in 1428-1468.

i.png


I will only note that at the beginning of the 14th century, the Siberian possessions spread even further south, just south of the Nura River. Most likely, the rest of the steppe also had borders along the river basins.

The Korel ulus is most likely the Tatars from the Sylva River in Perm. They've been living there since the 12th century.
 
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I found a couple of sources saying that there were neither Tatars nor the Golden Horde in the lower reaches of the Irtysh River until 1390. There may have been 4 independent principalities. Where the city of Isker was, there was the richest principality, it seemed to be mining silver, and the Ugrians (Magyars) fled there en masse.

At the end of the XIV — beginning of the XV century, as a result of Khan Sheiban's campaign from Bukhara to Western Siberia, the Irtysh and Ishim routes were captured. In the Tobolsk-Irtysh region, this trade route connected with the ancient trade route from the Volga region to the East.

So far, I have not found any more detailed information about this.
 
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So, the new version of the map so far is as follows:
Орда.png


Why 1340? Because Uzbek Khan's reforms were completed after Mubarak Khoja Khan was defeated, who did not want to give up his own lands to create new hordes. And so he tried to become independent by starting to issue coins of his own production. He was defeated this year, and in the same year, some territories began to be considered uluses. In particular, the rulers of Sygnak began to be referred to as the khans of the Golden Horde. Before that, they were considered co-rulers of the Kok Horde (blue). Perhaps in 1337, there were no hordes at all in the east of the golden Horde, and the main border between the descendants of Shiban and Orda-Ezhen passed west of Jend, through the center of Desht-i-Kipchak Ulus (both parts directly belonged to the ulus of Shiban and Orda-Ezhen, respectively) and west of Ibir Ulus. But many sources have contradictions for this division.

Desht-i-Kipchak Ulus (Iuz Horde) is a special territory with its capital in Turgai or Tagatai, or maybe two at the same time. Historically, it has constantly changed its rulers and there have always been conflicts. It has never had its own historical rulers, but all the neighboring khans claimed and owned it. For what reason is unknown, perhaps this territory had a ceremonial status. Perhaps the border of this ulus passed to the north, in the areas of the modern borders of Kazakhstan.

Zher su is a domain with its capital in old Taras. Historically, it is mentioned as the place where Urus Khan ruled after his defeat to Tokhtamysh. Excavations were carried out in the area, it was supposed to find coins of Chagatai production, but to the surprise of scientists, coins produced in Orda Bazaar, the capital of Kok Orda (blue), were found there. The border runs roughly along the borders of modern Kazakhstan. There is a mention in the source that there was a border between old Talas and new Talas. In addition, wikipedia indicates that during the conquest of the Karakhid Khanate, it was divided between Jochi and Chagatai. But before that, it was not clear where this separation took place. I could not determine whether this territory belonged to the Kyzyl Horde (red) or the Kok Horde (blue), so its affiliation can be determined during the conflict between Uzbek Khan and Mubarak Khoja Khan.
Some sources:
Yangi Taraz XIII-XIV centuries. And the discovery of its geographical location according to numismatic data.
Karluk Khanate

Oirat-Kalmyk Confederation. During the search for the borders of the ulus, it became clear that the Golden Horde had not yet been controlled by the Ob. But there was already a Turkic population there. By way of exclusion, the Oirat-Kalmyks are the only cultures that could have been there.

Boz horde. I have already written that the lower reaches of the Irtysh River will be captured later than 1390. The area of Chingi-Tura in 1337 under the control of the horde is ambiguous. Even if it's under their control, it was captured in this century. The city is not yet the capital of the khanate, and it is not yet known where the capital should be. In the 14th century, the Korel ulus appeared, which, together with the Bashkir tribes, fought against the Ugrians (Magyars). Their boundaries are not fully known. In the course of finding out which rulers ruled where, it turned out that there were definitely four uluses in Boz Horde. Wikipedia may tell you that the lands north of these villages were captured by Genghis Khan himself and transferred to the legendary Taibuga. I hasten to upset you, there are at least 5 legends about Taibuga, and four others indicate that he lived in the 15th century. It was even possible to find out the exact dates when he could really rule – from 1428 to 1450. There are no other suitable dates, as they are occupied by other rulers. According to Maslyuzhenko, Taibuga arrived with the Burkut tribe to serve Abulkhair Khan and unexpectedly became a vassal in the northern lands. At the same time, the southern lands of the Boz Horde could come under the control of Abulkhair. It was at this time that Chingi-tura became a real center.

Markets. Since Chingi-tura is not a suitable market, I suggest making a market in Orda Bazaar, the capital of Kok Orda (blue) and in the place where Isker should be in the future. Now this province is called Vagai. According to legends, silver was mined there, but it seems that silver was brought there from Altai. In addition, the Ugrians (Magyars) fled there, and there was also the Rodan culture, so the place for the market is quite suitable.

And then we move on to 4 new Ugric tribes. The Sikhirtia is a mythical tribe that lived in the Tobolsk region. The Sipyr is the largest tribe in the area, when the Horde attacked it with an army of 2,100 people, they were defeated, losing 1,700 soldiers, and 400 people remained alive. The Zabolotny principality is a principality "beyond the swamp", so named because the Tatars, having mixed with this population, acquired a zabolotny dialect. I decided to name the last tribe Yugra, because it is similar to the chronicle Yugra. There are metals and Magyars in it, and it borders on the horde. And representatives of the Rodanov culture could be, so to speak, mercenaries, making sure that this principality was subordinate to Novgorod. However, these are just oral or semi-oral legends. We don't know what really happened. We can only localize 4 principalities in this place based on the fact that new Tatar dialect groups appeared in these places. So, I forgot to say that in the 15th century the population of this area should be about 31,000 people. And the army of each principality could not be less than 300 people.

Moving to the west. Pereyaslavl and Sharukan are the capitals of formations, but we do not know what they were called in the horde. West of the Dnieper, the Edisan Tatars were separated from the Budjak Tatars. Crimea Ulus, and Kyrk are named after themselves. In Crimea, the Kyrk will be conquered by the horde after 1342, but before 1363. The western location is called Kyrk-Or, the eastern location is called Kyrk–Er, and the population consists mainly of Alans, the topographic terrain is hills.
Source: In the land of the little Alans
Places of Genoese and Venetian possessions in the Black Sea – I'm not sure yet that I've found them all.
 
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Two things: one, for most of the Genoese trading ports, I would represent those as foreign-owned buildings rather than full location ownership. Two, Saqci's control did not push that far south. Tatar rule over the Danube did not extend past the towns directly on the right bank, such as Isaccea and Vicina. Saqci should control the locations of Isaccea and Tulcea and no further south.
 
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Oirat-Kalmyk Confederation. During the search for the borders of the ulus, it became clear that the Golden Horde had not yet been controlled by the Ob. But there was already a Turkic population there. By way of exclusion, the Oirat-Kalmyks are the only cultures that could have been there.
It wouldn't have been them either, they migrated into the region in the 16th century due to invasions from the Khalkha Mongols, in the 14th century they lived exclusively south of Tuva.

I'll link my source here if I can find it, but I read it a few months ago. Here's a post I made on it: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ria-and-eastern-siberia.1707613/post-29946961

Edit: it's written in here https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...inov/db059356c085197dd3d25e00d15c03aec0a5da1d
Screenshot_20250223-195505~2.png
 
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Two things: one, for most of the Genoese trading ports, I would represent those as foreign-owned buildings rather than full location ownership. Two, Saqci's control did not push that far south. Tatar rule over the Danube did not extend past the towns directly on the right bank, such as Isaccea and Vicina. Saqci should control the locations of Isaccea and Tulcea and no further south.
1) It may be on the territory of Moldova. But in other places there is a bare steppe, where few people live. And somewhere there are Greeks and Armenians. So I would not give these territories to the Golden Horde. In addition, sometime in the 1340s, the Golden Horde besieged all these fortresses. Refugees from them brought the plague to Europe. This is quite an important point.

Perhaps the colonies in the Black Sea should be merged into the Genoese Gazaria. This will make it easier for the Genoese to defend the region.

2) I will take this into consideration. But keep in mind that borders are very arbitrary everywhere in this region. Entire ulus appear and disappear. Because the sources do not have dates and you have to determine them indirectly.
 
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1) It may be on the territory of Moldova. But in other places there is a bare steppe, where few people live. And somewhere there are Greeks and Armenians. So I would not give these territories to the Golden Horde. In addition, sometime in the 1340s, the Golden Horde besieged all these fortresses. Refugees from them brought the plague to Europe. This is quite an important point.

Perhaps the colonies in the Black Sea should be merged into the Genoese Gazaria. This will make it easier for the Genoese to defend the region.

2) I will take this into consideration. But keep in mind that borders are very arbitrary everywhere in this region. Entire ulus appear and disappear. Because the sources do not have dates and you have to determine them indirectly.
Yeah, 1) is more referring to, say, Tulcea and the other Danubian trading posts in particular. As for 2), we've got no evidence of Tatar control south of the Danube, aside from those towns which we knew were minting coins. We also know that Wallachia is going to push along the Danube all the way to the Black Sea; it makes more sense that they would do this from the Golden Horde (such as by conquering Saqci) than it would for them to take it from Bulgaria.

There's also, again, evidence from minted coins that point towards Tatar control of those areas but not really further south.
 
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I readjust my suggestion after looking at a map: Saqci should not include Tulcea, which was under Bulgarian control at the time.
Typical Balkan problems. Maybe you should discuss this in the Balkan region? So far, there has been no location revision on this map. Therefore, I don't quite understand where the border should go. I haven't studied the situation in Moldova in detail and I don't want to yet.
 
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Typical Balkan problems. Maybe you should discuss this in the Balkan region? So far, there has been no location revision on this map. Therefore, I don't quite understand where the border should go. I haven't studied the situation in Moldova in detail and I don't want to yet.
Wait, no, I remember now. The book in question is wrong; Saqci wasn't minting coins in 1337, let alone 1351. The latest coins they found were 1311.

So, on your map, Saqci just shouldn't exist.
 
1) It may be on the territory of Moldova. But in other places there is a bare steppe, where few people live. And somewhere there are Greeks and Armenians. So I would not give these territories to the Golden Horde. In addition, sometime in the 1340s, the Golden Horde besieged all these fortresses. Refugees from them brought the plague to Europe. This is quite an important point.

Perhaps the colonies in the Black Sea should be merged into the Genoese Gazaria. This will make it easier for the Genoese to defend the region.
Counterpoint:
1740353437823.png
 
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Pascatir and Baskardia are the same thing, the word for Bashkirs. Also, Shehr Al-Jedid should be owned by the horde, not Moldovan principality
Pascatir, Baskardia and Tura - these are three Bashkir territories ruled most likely by one ruler or his descendants. Together, they are considered a single Bashkir ulus. However, they are separated because they belong to different hordes. This division will remain in place until their unification as part of the Russian Empire. In Europe, 4 Bashkiria are divided between Kazan, Nogais and Uzbeks (Siberian Khanate). Therefore, they cannot be combined. I cited the source on page 26. From the point of view of the game, Korel ulus can also be Bashkir.
 
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Pascatir, Baskardia and Tura - these are three Bashkir territories ruled most likely by one ruler or his descendants. Together, they are considered a single Bashkir ulus. However, they are separated because they belong to different hordes. This division will remain in place until their unification as part of the Russian Empire. In Europe, 4 Bashkiria are divided between Kazan, Nogais and Uzbeks (Siberian Khanate). Therefore, they cannot be combined. I cited the source on page 26. From the point of view of the game, Korel ulus can also be Bashkir.
So they are a single entity (ruled by one ruler and considered a single ulus), however, many sources put them to different hordes. And this is why you have decided to split it?

I believe it requires more study about whom it belonged to in 1337, not the creation of 4 separate nations. This is just unnecessary fragmentation
 
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