Tinto Flavour #9 - 7th of March 2025 - Hungary

[yangzilata]

...Next week, on Monday we will have the Tinto Maps Feedback for Arabia, and ...

has it been postponed?

 

[yangzilata]

The catholic shield feels like it should be a generic advance rather than a Hungarian one. It should trigger on a large European Catholic nation adjacent to a large European Muslim one.

If the Serbs grow at Hungary's expense then they might be the Christian shield against the Ottomans.
If the Ottomans don't grow then no one might be the Christian shield
If the Ottomans don't grow but Crimea does, then maybe the Christian shield is Poland or Lithuania.
If Granada takes over Iberia then maybe France is the Christian shield!

Okay, so if the Catholics get their shield on, why not have an 'Islamic Shield' too.

If the Ottomans slack off, maybe the Safavids or Mamluks step up as the new shield and
if the Ottomans don't grow—like an ultimate Karamanid victory—but instead Granada or even an early North African power like Morocco rises (forming Almoravids via mission as the devs hinted in Morocco's dev diary), then boom, they've got the shield, no?

 

[yangzilata]

The catholic shield feels like it should be a generic advance rather than a Hungarian one. It should trigger on a large European Catholic nation adjacent to a large European Muslim one.

If the Serbs grow at Hungary's expense then they might be the Christian shield against the Ottomans.
If the Ottomans don't grow then no one might be the Christian shield
If the Ottomans don't grow but Crimea does, then maybe the Christian shield is Poland or Lithuania.
If Granada takes over Iberia then maybe France is the Christian shield!

Okay, so if the Catholics get their shield on, why not have an 'Islamic Shield' too.

If the Ottomans slack off, maybe the Safavids or Mamluks step up as the new shield and
if the Ottomans don't grow—like an ultimate Karamanid victory—but instead Granada or even an early North African power like Morocco rises (forming Almoravids via mission as the devs hinted in Morocco's dev diary), then boom, they've got the shield, no?

Almost forgot! Right, here's the Orthodox shield:

If Transylvania/Hungary converts to Orthodoxy, as a whole, then it grabs the shield.
If Serbia takes Buda, then Serbia gets the shield.
If all the Christian nations fall up to Vienna, HRE and neither Russia nor Novgorod steps up, then the shield goes unclaimed.
If the Timurids or Ilkhanate survive and Russia strikes into Central Asia, then Russia might earn it, right?

Oh, and what about the Ming-Russia scenario?

 

[yangzilata]

This is not a unique privilege, but a generic one that we created taking into account Hungary’s situation in 1337; a few countries across Europe also start with it enacted.

View attachment 1262261
We already showed this privilege in Tinto Flavour #1, if you remember. ​

By having it active, it may trigger this recurrent event:

View attachment 1262263
View attachment 1262265​

Will we be able to choose which culture we invite? For example, could we invite Chinese settlers to a developed Manchurian state? Or is it more tied to specific cultural groups?

 

[QuinnMallory]

That pact is a clear demonstration that the phrase "perverse incentive" did not yet exist.
Which makes me wonder whether there is a way to assassinate other countries' rulers like in CK. This could be to get a personal union, eliminate a strong ruler to weaken an enemy, and so on. Of course, the plot being exposed could have dire consequences.

 

[Fawr]

Almost forgot! Right, here's the Orthodox shield:

If Transylvania/Hungary converts to Orthodoxy, as a whole, then it grabs the shield.
If Serbia takes Buda, then Serbia gets the shield.
If all the Christian nations fall up to Vienna, HRE and neither Russia nor Novgorod steps up, then the shield goes unclaimed.
If the Timurids or Ilkhanate survive and Russia strikes into Central Asia, then Russia might earn it, right?

Oh, and what about the Ming-Russia scenario?

I'd much rather dynamic scenarios like this, rather than ones that are fixed to a specific country (and where the effects/text don't make sense in the game world that develops).

For the Ming-Russia scenario you don't need to use the same "shield" effect. Shields everywhere could get repetitive. Just look at what flavour you would add to Ming & Russia to simulate their meeting, and then think how to make it more generic (what if Russia meets Korea or Japan or Yuan or someone other than Ming with the mandate)? What if its not Russia who expands out there but Poland, Persia, the Ottomans or a reformed Mongol empire? Would something similar make sense? If it does make sense then instead of creating unique Russian content create content that others in similar situations can use. Potentially a return of the Mongols looks different to a large European state occupying the same land so a condition of the size of the country, and the location of its capital could be used.

 

[Ličanin]

Thank you for great tino flavours and talks. I know that you do not have time to give flavour to Croatia and that is alright. I wanted to ask you to at least change its map colour as it makes no sense to be green. EU4 map colour was awesome and it resembled our national flower Iris Croatica. Also Croatian colours were always gravitating towords blue/red/white, even before the tricolour flag, which can be seen in our regional coat of arms (crown on our current flag).

 

[Jjjace55]

Yes:
View attachment 1262409

There's an event to re-enact it, which I didn't end up showing it in the TF since the two event options and the Bull itself may need some balancing, and we already had enough events in this TF.

Since the core mechanics are done are tinto talks over? Will it be replaced by something else? Should I expect something today?

 

[GDQuirm]

Since the core mechanics are done are tinto talks over? Will it be replaced by something else? Should I expect something today?

Yup. Quote Pavia from the Arabia feedback thread,

Johan will talk about the additions and rework of the raw goods this Wednesday.

I couldn’t say when, since they’re usually released fifty minutes before now, but there should be a DD at some point today

Edit: It wasn’t late. Daylight savings time just sucks and is terrible and I hate that blasted Kiwi entomologist

 

[Polesie Admiral]

will there be an event where Mathias Corvinus elected king of Hungary?

 

[koreanjesus218]

will there be an event where Mathias Corvinus elected king of Hungary?

Since the game starts more than 100 years before Matthias was even born, I don't see why it would be necessary. It's not even guaranteed that his ancestors will move to Hungary. I assume it will be possible to elect a local noble, but there's no reason Matthias Corvinus should have his own event.

 

[ArVass]

will there be an event where Mathias Corvinus elected king of Hungary?

Probably not, but I think Hunyai János will appear as a historical character

 

[yangzilata]

I'd much rather dynamic scenarios like this, rather than ones that are fixed to a specific country (and where the effects/text don't make sense in the game world that develops).

For the Ming-Russia scenario you don't need to use the same "shield" effect. Shields everywhere could get repetitive. Just look at what flavour you would add to Ming & Russia to simulate their meeting, and then think how to make it more generic (what if Russia meets Korea or Japan or Yuan or someone other than Ming with the mandate)? What if its not Russia who expands out there but Poland, Persia, the Ottomans or a reformed Mongol empire? Would something similar make sense? If it does make sense then instead of creating unique Russian content create content that others in similar situations can use.

It should be based on religions, not just specific nations. Pagans like the Mongols (Tengri, I mean) and Aztecs and Mayans and Brazilian Pagans should get their own shield-like mechanic, at least in the Age of Reformation, no?

 

[SuperLexxe]

Thank you for great tino flavours and talks. I know that you do not have time to give flavour to Croatia and that is alright. I wanted to ask you to at least change its map colour as it makes no sense to be green. EU4 map colour was awesome and it resembled our national flower Iris Croatica. Also Croatian colours were always gravitating towords blue/red/white, even before the tricolour flag, which can be seen in our regional coat of arms (crown on our current flag).

---

No need to give up sir. All you gotta do is make the flavour yourself, then it may get picked up early due to reduced workload. Or, later it could be used anyway.

---

 

[Kazakk]

will mission trees be in the game? without them i fear all nations might play too similarly

 

[Zbbts]

Thank you for great tino flavours and talks. I know that you do not have time to give flavour to Croatia and that is alright. I wanted to ask you to at least change its map colour as it makes no sense to be green. EU4 map colour was awesome and it resembled our national flower Iris Croatica. Also Croatian colours were always gravitating towords blue/red/white, even before the tricolour flag, which can be seen in our regional coat of arms (crown on our current flag).

---

No need to give up sir. All you gotta do is make the flavour yourself, then it may get picked up early due to reduced workload. Or, later it could be used anyway.

---

Maybe they will still get some amount of flavor in the end, just not like the 60ish major flavor tags at release. And even then, there will be DLCs in the future so like SuperLexxe said, suggestions can go a long way (they usually pin useful posts and come back to them when it's relevant). I think they took away the EU4 color of Croatia because the Balkans were already 50 shades of purple (a.k.a the Anjou-Byzantine "playroom"). Although now that Naples is blue, maybe they will reconsider your suggestion.

 

[Malle8370v]

I don’t know if this has been asked or answered yet, but should cavalry not move faster, on the map, then normal infantry? So you could f.x have a small cavalry army scout infront of the main army?

 

[bhjonny]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but it could be an artwork of the Holy Right Hand. The mummified hand of Saint Stephen, the first King of Hungary, which became a relic around 1100 during the reign of King Saint Ladislaus. Today, it may not have the same significance, but in the past, it symbolized faith in the Hungarian kingdom

The Visegrád Royal Palace, which was built by King Charles Robert and served as his residence, could be a unique building. It is also the origin of the Visegrád Royal Meeting. During the Renaissance period, it was renovated, and this could be turned into an event that either increases its significance or provides additional bonuses, but at the cost of higher maintenance expenses.

Could this possibly be an event during Louis I of Anjou's reign (son of Charles Robert)? The establishment of the University of Pécs in 1367, which was the first university in the Kingdom of Hungary and was later followed by the University of Óbuda about 30 years later

It has already been mentioned here that the royal cities appeared in some form. One such city helped strengthen Charles Robert's power in the Battle of Rozgony

The following people could appear:

• John Hunyadi – 100%
• Pál Kinizsi – The most capable military leader of King Matthias, who never lost a battle.
• Tamás Bakocz – Archbishop of Győr. He came closest to becoming pope. It was indirectly because of him that the Dózsa György-led peasant uprising broke out; this could be part of an event chain.
• Miklós Zrínyi – A 17th-century Croatian Ban, a talented military leader, and poet.
• Gabriel Bethlen – Prince of Transylvania. He supported science and innovation and had excellent organizational skills.
• Istvan Bocskai military leader and the Hajduk(similar to Kozak)
• Francis II Rákóczi – Led a war of independence against the Habsburgs in the early 18th century. There could be an event where Hungary, as part of the Habsburg Empire in the 1700s, experiences a civil war or something similar.
• During the revolutionary period: István Széchenyi, Lajos Kossuth, Arthur Görgei (military leader), Gábor Áron (cannon founder).

Another potential addition, though I'm not sure how it could be incorporated (maybe an advance?), would be the new type of cart that originated in the time of Matthias Corvinus, from which the word "kocsi" (coach) comes . Kocs is a town and kocsi means of Kocs

 

[ArVass]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but it could be an artwork of the Holy Right Hand. The mummified hand of Saint Stephen, the first King of Hungary, which became a relic around 1100 during the reign of King Saint Ladislaus. Today, it may not have the same significance, but in the past, it symbolized faith in the Hungarian kingdom

The Visegrád Royal Palace, which was built by King Charles Robert and served as his residence, could be a unique building. It is also the origin of the Visegrád Royal Meeting. During the Renaissance period, it was renovated, and this could be turned into an event that either increases its significance or provides additional bonuses, but at the cost of higher maintenance expenses.

Could this possibly be an event during Louis I of Anjou's reign (son of Charles Robert)? The establishment of the University of Pécs in 1367, which was the first university in the Kingdom of Hungary and was later followed by the University of Óbuda about 30 years later

It has already been mentioned here that the royal cities appeared in some form. One such city helped strengthen Charles Robert's power in the Battle of Rozgony

The following people could appear:

• John Hunyadi – 100%
• Pál Kinizsi – The most capable military leader of King Matthias, who never lost a battle.
• Tamás Bakocz – Archbishop of Győr. He came closest to becoming pope. It was indirectly because of him that the Dózsa György-led peasant uprising broke out; this could be part of an event chain.
• Miklós Zrínyi – A 17th-century Croatian Ban, a talented military leader, and poet.
• Gabriel Bethlen – Prince of Transylvania. He supported science and innovation and had excellent organizational skills.
• Istvan Bocskai military leader and the Hajduk(similar to Kozak)
• Francis II Rákóczi – Led a war of independence against the Habsburgs in the early 18th century. There could be an event where Hungary, as part of the Habsburg Empire in the 1700s, experiences a civil war or something similar.
• During the revolutionary period: István Széchenyi, Lajos Kossuth, Arthur Görgei (military leader), Gábor Áron (cannon founder).

Another potential addition, though I'm not sure how it could be incorporated (maybe an advance?), would be the new type of cart that originated in the time of Matthias Corvinus, from which the word "kocsi" (coach) comes . Kocs is a town and kocsi means of Kocs

Indeed, the Coach/kocsi advance could perhaps have effects such as movement speed bonus (especially for auxiliaries) or control bonus along roads (much better travel).

The Herm of Saint Ladislaus as an artwork would also be nice.

 

[koreanjesus218]

The following people could appear:

• John Hunyadi – 100%
• Pál Kinizsi – The most capable military leader of King Matthias, who never lost a battle.
• Tamás Bakocz – Archbishop of Győr. He came closest to becoming pope. It was indirectly because of him that the Dózsa György-led peasant uprising broke out; this could be part of an event chain.
• Miklós Zrínyi – A 17th-century Croatian Ban, a talented military leader, and poet.
• Gabriel Bethlen – Prince of Transylvania. He supported science and innovation and had excellent organizational skills.
• Istvan Bocskai military leader and the Hajduk(similar to Kozak)
• Francis II Rákóczi – Led a war of independence against the Habsburgs in the early 18th century. There could be an event where Hungary, as part of the Habsburg Empire in the 1700s, experiences a civil war or something similar.
• During the revolutionary period: István Széchenyi, Lajos Kossuth, Arthur Görgei (military leader), Gábor Áron (cannon founder).

I'm not sure how historical characters work, but do all of these really need to be added as historical characters? I mean, do we need Kinizsi, or is it good enough to just get a good general (through generic game mechanics), who has a chance to be called Kinizsi Pál, but doesn't necessarily have to be. I think only truly unique leaders really need to be added, like Hunyadi and Zrínyi (the latter mainly because he was also a poet).

As for politicians/leaders, I would say both Bethlen and Bocskai would just be advisors/military leaders with good traits, who can become become rulers depending on the succession laws. I also don't think Rákoczy needs to be a unique character, his war of independence should probably be a generic game mechanic.

I think Széchenyi and Kossuth are fine even though it's really late in the game's timeline, but the game ends in 1837 right? So Görgei is 18 or 19 then? I think he might be a bit too young.

I would like to nominate some characters to be added though:

• Orban/Urban, in EU4, I'm pretty sure only the Ottomans get the event to get artillery early from Orban/Urban, but before that, he was making cannons for Hungary
• John of Capistrano, if Hungary is fighting against a heathen threat, he can appear to convince peasants to join the army boosting manpower
• Imre Thököly (including a possible formation of the Principality of Upper Hungary)
• András Hadik - OP Hussar general
• Maurice Benyovszky, polish-hungarian explorer and writer, rightful king of Madagascar