Tinto Flavour #18 - 16th of May 2025

[titan.bevel]

We don't have a generic mechanic for governors in the game. It's something that we've discussed internally, but it would imply a rework of several mechanics to have something that could be on par with the game systems (e.g., appointable provincial governors as in Imperator). So, to be clear, don't expect a mechanic for governors to be in the game when it's released; we want to set the expectations clearly regarding this.

That said, for some countries for which that system was super-important in the early game, we have created a scripted, super-simple version of them. Timurids can appoint family members as 'governors' (= subjects) in their provinces, while there's this generic action available in the Fall of Delhi situation, while it's active:

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Is it something you'd consider for a DLC down the line ? Or is it too soon to think about that ?

 

[FleetingRain]

"Should the Share of Power of our foes grows [sic] to more than 50% we may fall into the Dissolution of Delhi Disaster"
"This is Delhi's Share of Power. They will be victorious should it reach 100% before the Dissolution of Delhi Disaster commences."

The way the second sentence is worded implies that the Dissolution is a race against time. The first sentence also implies that there's some kind of ticking progress that fires once the enemies get to 50% Share. Is that so?

 

[Pavía]

Is it something you'd consider for a DLC down the line ? Or is it too soon to think about that ?

We prefer to focus on releasing a good game first.

 

[Oglesby]

• model is too big
• I think changing from a landscape format to a portrait will help the framing of the model
• I would use the room from changing from landscape for the flag and other data
• Some of the information that is present on the 'country' tooltip feels important enough to be here. (i.e. Urban/total locations, income, etc.)
• The diplo-box at the bottom is off center (or is there no edging on that side?)
• Purple square is an odd icon choice
• I would remove the frames on the small flags
• You really couldn't fit that last one?
• looks like the yellows for cultures are too close in 'color'

• I like the choice of color for the water
• I am ok with the manilla folder color used for the 'wastelands' but would think that a grey would stand out better.

• I am liking the 'Satisfaction' over listing 'Estate Satisfaction'
• Unify the location of the satisfactions, currently it appears as though the current, arrow, target is formed into a string and then right justified making the arrow dance. Do one of the following:
  • (a) format the number with the room for the 10s digit (i.e. #0.##%) which will mean the string is always the same size (can you get to 100% if so think on how that will be presented, might need ##0.##%)
  • (b) fix the location of the 'arrow' and place the values based on that.
• The above situation is made more apparent because "Satisfaction" is placed based on the left end of the string. I would either have it right justified (like Reforms) or centered on the string if (a) or 'Arrow' if (b)
• A 'green faced' powerful 'Umara' is rebelling?
• I think that you do not need an indicator meaning at equilibrium (as shown in the Commoners)
• Does the rebelling icons need the estate base in this context?
• The black background color of the donut charts makes the look bad, I would try transparent or a grey or tan color instead

• Woohoo... We moved the age icon and added the classification to the title bar. With this the banner in the pop-type line is no longer needed, and the 'location requirements' line can be returned to the pop-type line.
• I would center the title instead of right justifying it.
• I would go with 'Location Benefits', instead of the sentence titles
• Is this icon for manpower used on the units and unit-type tooltips? if not, can it?
• Production methods
  • Do we really need the word 'required' just because it is the only one?
  • Remove the blocking around the number in thegoods list
  • Add hundredths to goods and adjust the size appropriately
• Is there a reason not to use the same format as the PM for construction? It will help with the tooltips being too big.
• The margin in the flavor text is too big. (if they are going to be long I wonder if full justification would look better.)
• I prefer moving away from the <yes/no>. As this is a location effect do we need to specify that that is location specific? I also do not think that the auxiliary verbs are needed (has/can)
  • 'Recruit Regiments' <--> 'Allowed'

• Can we drop 'Estate' from the first modifier?
• 'Talugdar Tax Collection' <--> 'Allowed' (or 'Unlocked')
• Side question, do we have rate changes that are not monthly? Do we need to list it on everything?
• 'Towards' over 'to'
• Looking at this flavor text I do think that full justification would look better. I would also use the flourishes used for event flavor text.

• Does 'Requires Administrative Ability' mean that is used that number from the 'cabinet member'? If so, isn't that what the icon on the left means? If the left icon is really for the title and not the classification I would either place the icon of the attribute used on the right or the words in the subtitle 'Cabinet Action | Administrative Ability'
• I wonder about these icons. I would think that maximum tax for peasant estate would be
  • Base icon <tax : coins>, 1st modifier(LR) <maximum : up arrow to bar>, 2nd Modifier(UL) <Peasant Estate Icon>

• 'Conversion of _____' <--> 'Blocked'
• no reason given as to why it cannot be removed (is it that it hasn't been in effect long enough?)
• Is the implemented date the point where you started the implementation (i.e. 1%) or completed?
  • Once we are at 100% is there a reason to know this date?
  • If this date is the time when it reached 100%, do we need to show the 100% if we have this date?

• Doesn't look like there is enough room for a scroll bar
• Having the column 'titles' with the search buttons not match the columns makes it look bad.
• Is the fill bar how close they are to rebelling?

• No need for the first line (it is in the title bar)

• The first bullet feels like it should be at the bottom in a flavor text box. (or even at top in one but not as a bullet).
• Thanks for dropping the + from 'gain' lines (I hope this means the '-' is removed from 'lose' ones too)
• Aren't country names treated as a singular collective noun? So 'Guar gains 50.00 Liberty Desire' just like 'Guar is a subject...'

• There is a 'power' clash between the models and the background image. We either need the models to shrink and move to the lower corners more so that we can appreciate the background, which I prefer, or we need simpler back ground images.
• The name and stat bar covers too much of the models and background.
• Center 'Start Date' over the date
• I would play with the font sizes in the top bar. I would decrease the font of 'Start Date' while increasing the actual date, this give weight to that value over the title. I would do the opposite for the Dehli and the 0.00%. Here the value doesn't need the weight as it is represented by the donut chart.
• Is the 'Yes to Vote' section meant to be there?
• The bottom box is wider that the two boxes above it.
• The backgrounds for the bottom boxes look weirds (at least at this resolution) and hinder reading the titles.

• If there isn't a timeout, just don't put the timeout. No need for the 'for Forever'
• I know that I am typically talking about making tooltips shorter but here is a case where I think something needs to be added. Can we get the modifiers that are listed in the modifier tooltip also listed in the Event Option.
  • We gain Opposers Interference
    • Estates Satisfaction Equilibrium <--> -0.20%
    • Loyalty of Subjects <--> -0 (Is this correct?)
    • Rebel Growth <--> +0.01%
• I would also match the location of the smallest digits in columns (if we cannot match decimal points)

• I think it looks better if the vertical bars for the 'at least one of' and 'all of' branches should come down from their check box. this gives better indication that that branch is represented by that checkbox.
• I would not have a leading horizontal tail on the top layer but instead make it appear as it the first branch comes from the icon in the title bar (in this case the main | would be centered on the green seal but not go below the first list item, the second | would start from and be centered on the X in the first list item as they are a sub clause.)

That is all for now.

 

[Adnef03]

So you're doing Flavour for Sweden before giving us Feedback for Scandinavia?

 

[ManishTR]

Does the Game any mechanics to spawn Maratha empire ?

 

[Shaheen_Jc]

It doesn't make sense that no one within any Indian Sultanate would ever convert to Islam under the "Protected Faith of the Common People" estate privilege. While it's true that Dhimmis were protected under Muslim rule, this protection doesn't imply that all non-Muslims would remain in their original faiths indefinitely. In fact, modern India has over 200 million Muslims, the vast majority of whom are descendants of converts from Dharmic religions, most of whom embraced Islam willingly over time.


Therefore, this privilege should not completely prevent conversion to Islam. It would be more historically accurate and balanced if there were a stable rate of conversion from other religions to Islam under Sultanate rule, rather than an absolute block on it.

 

[ImperatorVictor]

A great curiosity If I start with the Delhi Sultanate and want to form Hindustan will I miss the advances, events and unique flavors of Delhi, or will they be kept and added to the flavors of Hindustan?

 

[Oglesby]

1. You need to wait for the situation to start, as you can't attack other subjects at the start.
2. All of them are Samantas.
3.

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Is the 'My time is now!' button green because you start playing as a new nation if you select it? If not, can we get a visual indicator for that (like we have for 'historical').

 

[Drehgaer]

Nice flavour! Will it be possible to revoke the non conversion of population privilege, and start some conversion attempts? By game's end, around 15% of subcontinent's population was Muslim I think..

Some passive conversion mechanic would be nice, even if it's just the elites converting or something along these lines. It's something that I found quite lacking in eu4. Obviously, muslim countries should not convert everything they conquer, but no conversion at all is also ahistorical, and in eu4 muslim countries seem to always grant dhimmi privileges no matter what, which prevents historical outcomes like Albania or Bengal becoming muslim. Maybe make it occur only around the capital or in locations with control, and at a very slow rate, but some passive conversion mechanism should be present, in my opinion.

 

[Tiwaz4]

I'd suggest using "opponents" (if external) or "dissenters" (if internal) instead of "opposers" in these events. "Opposers" sounds a bit awkward.

 

[Atromb]

Why do Indian rulers wear such basic clothing? They look more like courtiers than like incredibly wealthy individuals, their clothes should definitely become more lavish and decorated.

 

[Muntril]

Noticed this historical reference/inspiration!

 

[Flower_Marlin]

Writing this ahead of the Tinto Map feedback on Monday, as this point is relevant to this TF post as well. I'd like to reiterate the need for consistency in language for the naming of nations, in this case, the specific case of Saptagram, Sonargaon, and Gaur sultanates.

The name Saptagram is in Bengali - Sapta meaning 7, Gram means village. The equivalent name in Hindustani is Satgaon, Saat meaning 7, Gaon meaning village. I see the location is named by anglicising the Hindi/Hindustani name, but the state is named in Bengali.

The name Sonargaon is, conversely, in Hindi - Sonar meaning "of Gold" and gaon means, you guessed it, village. "City of Gold". The equivalent name would be "Sonargram" in Bengali.

The same applies for Gaur, which is the anglicisation of the Hindi pronunciation, while the same of the Bengali pronunciation would be Gour.

This is an annoying inconsistency. I would suggest having them all be named in Bengali, namely Saptagram, Sonargram, and Gour, considering these are Bengali states - OR since the ruling class are of Persianate origins and their pronunciations of place names were based off of the Hindustani pronunciations, they could all have the location names be in the Hindustani versions - Satgaon, Sonargaon and Gaur. That's all.

 

[yangzilata]

...a situation will pop up, ‘The Fall of Delhi...

since you did that “Fall of Delhi” thing (which honestly is super cool ngl), is there any chance you could do like… a general (Generic) “fall of X” kinda thing? not tied to Delhi or any specific tag, but something that can happen to any empire-rank country if it gets too massive and bloated?

• Suggestion:

like imagine if a country hits, idk, over 200 provinces or something—not counting colonial subjects, I mean proper land you actually control. maybe even include vassals too? ‘cause let’s be real, some players totally abuse the system by playing as a flavour-heavy vassal and just using their overlord to conquer half the world while dodging all the flavour penalties. feels a bit scummy tbh, like skipping the whole “managing a mega empire” challenge by cheesing mission trees.

• Alternative Suggestion:

and even if they’re not at 200 provinces, maybe if they’ve got two full regions under 100% control (whether by proximity or raw ownership or both), that could also trigger it? idk, numbers might sound weird or random, but I hope the general idea makes sense.

it’s just… disasters right now don’t really stop those ultra-blobby players who’re dead set on world conquest by 1600. and yeah fair, some tags should expand crazy fast—like Mughals or Delhi or Timurids or Napoleonids and all that—but there should still be a point where the game’s like “yo, hold up.” like some kind of pressure system, or civil war risk, or anything that scales with how big you are. kinda like in Imperator where your rank changed the civil war threshold (some of you prob remember that dynamic bar)? not perfect, sure, but it was something—and it felt reasonable.

anyway yeah, just tossing this out there. not some super polished concept, just think there’s space for this kinda thing. would make late-game blobs a bit more spicy at least.

 

[vab9000]

We don't have a generic mechanic for governors in the game. It's something that we've discussed internally, but it would imply a rework of several mechanics to have something that could be on par with the game systems (e.g., appointable provincial governors as in Imperator). So, to be clear, don't expect a mechanic for governors to be in the game when it's released; we want to set the expectations clearly regarding this.

That said, for some countries for which that system was super-important in the early game, we have created a scripted, super-simple version of them. Timurids can appoint family members as 'governors' (= subjects) in their provinces, while there's this generic action available in the Fall of Delhi situation, while it's active:

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Disappointing but understandable. I would suggest making the appoint governor decision give a negative modifier like negative control growth after the 5 years is over if stability is below a certain level to represent the new governor also getting some “dangerous ideas”. Also make the decision increase the power and loyalty of the umara for the duration as well as keeping the power increase for an extra 5 years.
I would hope that the governors idea is high on the priority list after the game is in a polished state, as it would add to the historical immersion immensely.

 

[Palfouri]

since you did that “Fall of Delhi” thing (which honestly is super cool ngl), is there any chance you could do like… a general (Generic) “fall of X” kinda thing? not tied to Delhi or any specific tag, but something that can happen to any empire-rank country if it gets too massive and bloated?

• Suggestion:

like imagine if a country hits, idk, over 200 provinces or something—not counting colonial subjects, I mean proper land you actually control. maybe even include vassals too? ‘cause let’s be real, some players totally abuse the system by playing as a flavour-heavy vassal and just using their overlord to conquer half the world while dodging all the flavour penalties. feels a bit scummy tbh, like skipping the whole “managing a mega empire” challenge by cheesing mission trees.

• Alternative Suggestion:

and even if they’re not at 200 provinces, maybe if they’ve got two full regions under 100% control (whether by proximity or raw ownership or both), that could also trigger it? idk, numbers might sound weird or random, but I hope the general idea makes sense.

it’s just… disasters right now don’t really stop those ultra-blobby players who’re dead set on world conquest by 1600. and yeah fair, some tags should expand crazy fast—like Mughals or Delhi or Timurids or Napoleonids and all that—but there should still be a point where the game’s like “yo, hold up.” like some kind of pressure system, or civil war risk, or anything that scales with how big you are. kinda like in Imperator where your rank changed the civil war threshold (some of you prob remember that dynamic bar)? not perfect, sure, but it was something—and it felt reasonable.

anyway yeah, just tossing this out there. not some super polished concept, just think there’s space for this kinda thing. would make late-game blobs a bit more spicy at least.

If I remember correctly Pavia said in the Ilkhanate dev diary that they do have a generic "fall of x" situation for empire-rank countries.

 

[theolaa]

 

[Idle America]

Is there a word for "seeing American flags where none exist"? The same thing happens with the Victoria 3 image with the elephant.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

None of those pops will be converted, but others might be. E.g.: Nobles.

What are the practical effects of having a state where the upper classes follow the state religion while everyone else is a heathen? Do similar privileges exist for other state religions, and are their privileges that protect only certain religions? (Like how in eu4 western Christians have a privilege protecting eastern Christians)