-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I'm genuinly speechless. Like, literally, how could somebody seriously have picked these 3d monstrosities over the 2d portraits above and say "Yes, this is a good choice".Yes, YES PLEASE. Give us 2d art, not hideous 3d-abominations from Victoria 3.
For example, here's what remained in a Victoria 3 folder as UNSUSED asset
Compare it with what we had in the end:
And 3d models also hog about 30% of user interface.
Thinking we could have ended up with these portraits instead... Man...
- 32
- 4
these (and similar design) could still be used for eu5... i mean project ceasar. lets hope johan is following this thread - save money and reuse assets
- 5
- 1
sorry for a double post so close to each other and i do not farm likes buuuut
you know what those pictures remind me off?
How a modern Paradox Game should feel, like seeing EU3 and 4 the first time. The crisp graphics of my spreadsheet mixed with nice portraits and graphics were they make sense. In contrast, modern Paradox Games like CK3 and vic 2 reminds me of Duplo blocks mixed with Mobile Game graphics (even when it kind of works) and maybe nice but useless/distracting eyecandy .
Or even better,
you know how your memory can upgrade the graphics of games to keep them fresh, and when you play them again, you see how dated they look? Those portraits look just like straight-up memory upgrades from eu 2/3/4. The same but modern, and I LOVE that.
you know what those pictures remind me off?
How a modern Paradox Game should feel, like seeing EU3 and 4 the first time. The crisp graphics of my spreadsheet mixed with nice portraits and graphics were they make sense. In contrast, modern Paradox Games like CK3 and vic 2 reminds me of Duplo blocks mixed with Mobile Game graphics (even when it kind of works) and maybe nice but useless/distracting eyecandy .
Or even better,
you know how your memory can upgrade the graphics of games to keep them fresh, and when you play them again, you see how dated they look? Those portraits look just like straight-up memory upgrades from eu 2/3/4. The same but modern, and I LOVE that.
- 15
- 3
Ok, gentlemen, lets look at the possible options:
The hand-drawn portraits of HoI4, as well as the few portraits there are in EU4 and Victoria 2, are, we all seem to agree, superior in regards of aesthetics, BUT:
Victoria 2 portraits are used to easily tell the difference between your generals, and EU4 portraits are used to differentiate between the advisor types. The portraits in Vic2 and EU4 are not representations of the actual people, so I don't think we should be talking about them when talking about character portraits - those are not characters.
HoI4 portraits, on the other hand, do represent the historical characters. But there's another problem - they are entirely *limited* to historical figures. Because of the heavy railroading of history in HoI4 there is no need to make portraits of people who never existed. They can focus their attention on making beautiful hand-crafted portraits, because there are actual references for every single one of them. EU, where most characters are not real people, thus, does not have that option.
Another game with that same problem is Crusader Kings. I don't know how popular this opinion is, but I think that CK3's 3d portraits are objectively an improvement over the portraits in CK2, they get the job done, and they actually look pretty good if you use mods like CFP and EPE. So maybe CK3-style portraits are the way to go for EUV?
Well, as Victoria 3 shows us - probably no. I don't know how they fumbled the portraits so bad, like, brother, you are literally just translating the portrait system over from a previously successful game, all you have to do is model new assets, but no. The faces and the poses and the clothes and the UI integration all suck, and there isn't even a community-made solution to this. This is, most certainly, one of the symptoms of how underbaked Vic3 was on release, and maybe, we can hope, that with EUV they will have more time to port the CK3 portraits properly and have it come out OK in the end.
But maybe there's another way. Maybe it is time we learn something from our long lost son - Imperator: Rome. I:R's portraits are static, and only the upper body is shown. Maybe, by imitating that style, the developers will have to spend less time on posing and modelling and have more time to focus on faces, which is the most important part of a character portrait. Also, that way it will take up less space in the UI while still letting us look at the faces of our history.
So, what do you think, gentlemen? Am I correct or am I really stupid?
The hand-drawn portraits of HoI4, as well as the few portraits there are in EU4 and Victoria 2, are, we all seem to agree, superior in regards of aesthetics, BUT:
Victoria 2 portraits are used to easily tell the difference between your generals, and EU4 portraits are used to differentiate between the advisor types. The portraits in Vic2 and EU4 are not representations of the actual people, so I don't think we should be talking about them when talking about character portraits - those are not characters.
HoI4 portraits, on the other hand, do represent the historical characters. But there's another problem - they are entirely *limited* to historical figures. Because of the heavy railroading of history in HoI4 there is no need to make portraits of people who never existed. They can focus their attention on making beautiful hand-crafted portraits, because there are actual references for every single one of them. EU, where most characters are not real people, thus, does not have that option.
Another game with that same problem is Crusader Kings. I don't know how popular this opinion is, but I think that CK3's 3d portraits are objectively an improvement over the portraits in CK2, they get the job done, and they actually look pretty good if you use mods like CFP and EPE. So maybe CK3-style portraits are the way to go for EUV?
Well, as Victoria 3 shows us - probably no. I don't know how they fumbled the portraits so bad, like, brother, you are literally just translating the portrait system over from a previously successful game, all you have to do is model new assets, but no. The faces and the poses and the clothes and the UI integration all suck, and there isn't even a community-made solution to this. This is, most certainly, one of the symptoms of how underbaked Vic3 was on release, and maybe, we can hope, that with EUV they will have more time to port the CK3 portraits properly and have it come out OK in the end.
But maybe there's another way. Maybe it is time we learn something from our long lost son - Imperator: Rome. I:R's portraits are static, and only the upper body is shown. Maybe, by imitating that style, the developers will have to spend less time on posing and modelling and have more time to focus on faces, which is the most important part of a character portrait. Also, that way it will take up less space in the UI while still letting us look at the faces of our history.
So, what do you think, gentlemen? Am I correct or am I really stupid?
- 14
- 5
Counter-point: use AI generated 3d models, immediately reject anything without at least 13 fingers.
- 13
- 4
- 3
- 1
Thta's for ck3, some already play a game where that is the obvious and logical case a couple generations in
I thought the goal in CK3 was to curve the chin so much it loops into the forehead, but maybe I'm behind on the meta.
5 minutes of ai generation, not much specifications, just bare minumum to define what I want, You can add tons of specific parameters to generate TONS of it in any artsyle and even the worst of them will be better than 3d Barnum's Circus of Freaks:
- 29
- 10
and would be still relible with the art style of the era, they would just need to edit in photoshop a lot. AI is really not good yet to make code, but for art is really fine and would help a lot.5 minutes of ai generation, not much specifications, just bare minumum to define what I want, You can add tons of specific parameters to generate TONS of it in any artsyle and even the worst of them will be better than 3d Barnum's Circus of Freaks:
- 12
- 2
What I said wasn't meant to be a serious suggestion. I am not against using AI per se' though. Ultimately it needs to look good in context of what it's being used to do.
But I don't think many players are into 13+ fingers. Unless.......
But I don't think many players are into 13+ fingers. Unless.......
Ai is pretty good with making portrait of people of this era in their art style, you just need to edit in photoshop later, thse fingers and etcs, its not like devs would use AI and doesn't edit it.
- 6
- 4
I for one believe we should strive to reach some as excellent as this:5 minutes of ai generation, not much specifications, just bare minumum to define what I want, You can add tons of specific parameters to generate TONS of it in any artsyle and even the worst of them will be better than 3d Barnum's Circus of Freaks:
- 14
- 1
- 1
As someone who loves 3D portraits, I'll say this.
So far, 3 Paradox games have 3D portraits, and only one has actually done them correctly - Crusader Kings 3. With mods, they can actually look amazing.
Imperator Portraits are barebones, missing critical things like headwear like crowns, wreaths and helmets (all suggestions got ignored, but don't talk about it or you'll get banned), don't render arms (a problem highlighted with the final patch) and low variety. They were kinda lame, but that's the character system in that game in general. Oh well.
Victoria 3 portraits are...let's say, just bad. With the exception of pre-created historical characters (which do look good I'll say), they ALL look like deeply inbred potatoes, with facial expressions hinting at indigestion. The game doesn't do any justice to the vibrant, ornate fashion of the 19th century - there is severely limited outfits, headgear, hairstyles and so on which all look bland. Outside of the western world, you have everyone from the rich nobles to factory workers wearing the same outfit with little to no variety (for example the Islamic world gets hit hard, where they got that one lame black jacket and nothing else).
And female characters are missing things like military clothing - so even if you could have a female character in military (via mods), they lead their armies in everyday clothing. There is no post-Edwardian clothing either, so if you reach the WW1 era, there is no immersion there.
To top it off, all characters are seen from that ugly below-the-chin camera angle, instead of the front. It only amplifies the ugliness and potato-visuals further. Their weird poses don't help either. Real 19th century portraits could look so cool, none of that here.
I don't know who thought it was a good idea. If they didn't or couldn't make 3D characters properly, they should've instead gone with animated 2D characters (using portraits showcased above) - like Stellaris or that announced game Gilded Destiny. I hope they get removed, since there is no indication they ever plan to improve them anytime yet.
Even Imperator portraits look better than Victoria 3, which is surprising.
If EU5 is to have 3D characters (which I have no problem with), it should go with the CK3 model and not whatever Victoria 3 is trying. That or beautiful animated 2D.
So far, 3 Paradox games have 3D portraits, and only one has actually done them correctly - Crusader Kings 3. With mods, they can actually look amazing.
Imperator Portraits are barebones, missing critical things like headwear like crowns, wreaths and helmets (all suggestions got ignored, but don't talk about it or you'll get banned), don't render arms (a problem highlighted with the final patch) and low variety. They were kinda lame, but that's the character system in that game in general. Oh well.
Victoria 3 portraits are...let's say, just bad. With the exception of pre-created historical characters (which do look good I'll say), they ALL look like deeply inbred potatoes, with facial expressions hinting at indigestion. The game doesn't do any justice to the vibrant, ornate fashion of the 19th century - there is severely limited outfits, headgear, hairstyles and so on which all look bland. Outside of the western world, you have everyone from the rich nobles to factory workers wearing the same outfit with little to no variety (for example the Islamic world gets hit hard, where they got that one lame black jacket and nothing else).
And female characters are missing things like military clothing - so even if you could have a female character in military (via mods), they lead their armies in everyday clothing. There is no post-Edwardian clothing either, so if you reach the WW1 era, there is no immersion there.
To top it off, all characters are seen from that ugly below-the-chin camera angle, instead of the front. It only amplifies the ugliness and potato-visuals further. Their weird poses don't help either. Real 19th century portraits could look so cool, none of that here.
I don't know who thought it was a good idea. If they didn't or couldn't make 3D characters properly, they should've instead gone with animated 2D characters (using portraits showcased above) - like Stellaris or that announced game Gilded Destiny. I hope they get removed, since there is no indication they ever plan to improve them anytime yet.
Even Imperator portraits look better than Victoria 3, which is surprising.
If EU5 is to have 3D characters (which I have no problem with), it should go with the CK3 model and not whatever Victoria 3 is trying. That or beautiful animated 2D.
Last edited:
- 20
- 5
this....they can make realistic looking portraits (you truly cannot see they are not real sometimes). been doing it now a while for FM and it is 10000000x better than anything an 3d artist can make.
- 7
So true! With the refund from V3 I have decided to supporto on Kickstarter this game; it looks as what V3 should have been since the release. Really stunning.
- 6
- 2
No way man. They had these incredible portraits and decided not to go for them? How? They look marvellous! The are perfectly crafted and seams like a restored photo or an history book image. Why we got plastic meme pops?Yes, YES PLEASE. Give us 2d art, not hideous 3d-abominations from Victoria 3.
For example, here's what remained in a Victoria 3 folder as UNSUSED asset
Compare it with what we had in the end:
And 3d models also hog about 30% of user interface.
- 18
- 2
AI portraits suffer a lot from soullessness. I can always instantly tell when something is AI generated, and it makes the game feel cheaper.5 minutes of ai generation, not much specifications, just bare minumum to define what I want, You can add tons of specific parameters to generate TONS of it in any artsyle and even the worst of them will be better than 3d Barnum's Circus of Freaks:
- 20
- 3
- 2
- 1