3D Artwork Megathread (all discussion here please)

[D Austin Vaughan]

No offence to the small mod makers, but the popular mods are more often than not the overhaul mods, and fantasy or otherwise overhaul mods require some kind of art that isn't present in the main game.

I'll go through each of the games:
EU4's popular non UI/localisation mods:
Anbennar - fantasy mod that requires multiple fantasy races
Third Odyssey - alt history that requires bespoke clothing and hairstyles
Imperium Universalis - time shift that requires bespoke clothing and hairstyles
Ante Bellum - again, alt history that requires bespoke clothing and hairstyles

HoI4:
Kaiserreich - alt history that requires bespoke clothing and hairstyles
Old world blues - Fallout mod that needs a complete aesthetic overhaul, including a myriad of mutant portraits
TNO - alt history time shift which requires modern clothing
You can probably work out how much you need to do to make the myriad of other popular overhaul mods for Hoi4, star wars, pax Britannica ect.

CK3: it has 3D portraits, and production of major mods have been slowed considerably by them.
Elder kings - fantasy, requires a complete overhaul to characters
Game of thrones - low fantasy, requires bespoke clothing and hairstyles
Realms in Exile - LotR mod, requires complete overhaul for fantasy races, most of the world is not implied yet.

Hold on, I think you're being a little bit selective here. CK3 also has mods like the Fallen Eagle or Bronze Age Reborn (recently updated) which take place in different eras entirely. There is After the End which brings in many new assets, and above all community flavor pack which adds in tons of new accessories. These are just to name a few more.

 

[Fatherlorris]

Hold on, I think you're being a little bit selective here. CK3 also has mods like the Fallen Eagle or Bronze Age Reborn (recently updated) which take place in different eras entirely. There is After the End which brings in many new assets, and above all community flavor pack which adds in tons of new accessories. These are just to name a few more.

I wasn't being selective, I just thought my post was dragging on a bit.

3D portraits hampered the development of those mods too, just like the other CK3 mods I mentioned.

All those assets take a lot of time and skill to make.

And that is with the financial incentive that the CK3 provides too with the community DLC packs.

 

[ibvfteh]

Ngl i always hover my mouse over the portrait to see their actual occupation(though it doesn't really matter since the buffs are immediately obvious) so at least for me who's been playing EU4 for a long time they're not really that recognizable.

I recognise my favourite few easily by pictures(Starting hunt for morale or discipline guy). I think only naval/colonial ones require me to hover

 

[Lys91]

I got downvoted in the other thread, but the portrait we were shown is a huge step up compared to Vic 3. They are a relatively nice touch if they don't put them everywhere. I could do without 3D portraits, but if we must have them, it is much better than other recent PDX games.

 

[Fatherlorris]

I got downvoted in the other thread, but the portrait we were shown is a huge step up compared to Vic 3. They are a relatively nice touch if they don't put them everywhere. I could do without 3D portraits, but if we must have them, it is much better than other recent PDX games.

You aren't wrong, but saying something is better than Vic 3 is truly damning with faint praise.

 

[William the Merry]

I got downvoted in the other thread, but the portrait we were shown is a huge step up compared to Vic 3. They are a relatively nice touch if they don't put them everywhere. I could do without 3D portraits, but if we must have them, it is much better than other recent PDX games.

They can look good in press images, but if we get regular haemonculus and demon babies whilst playing, that will suck

 

[Lys91]

They can look good in press images, but if we get regular haemonculus and demon babies whilst playing, that will suck

Well, Vic 3 looked bad even in a press release, so I am seeing a step up. Maybe I got caught by PDX's Machiavellian plan to lower my standard through Vic 3.

I am not expecting them to show us anything beyond our ruler, their spouse, their cabinet, and their army leaders (i.e., no kids, no pops, etc.). We could do without it, definitely, but if they stick to that, they can do a decent enough job, IMHO.

 

[William the Merry]

Well, Vic 3 looked bad even in a press release, so I am seeing a step up. Maybe I got caught by PDX's Machiavellian plan to lower my standard through Vic 3.

The dastardly plan all along

I am not expecting them to show us anything beyond our ruler, their spouse, their cabinet, and their army leaders (i.e., no kids, no pops, etc.). We could do without it, definitely, but if they stick to that, they can do a decent enough job, IMHO.

Yeah im hoping for no pops models, although they might, just to help visualise slavery

 

[st360]

Nobody wants them. They ALWAYS look bad, they ALWAYS look like cartoon characters. They always break immersion when they are the only thing animated in the UI and end up making the rest of the game look dead and pulling you out of your fantasy.

Paradox, wake up already. Imperator was a failure. Victoria 3 is a failure. CK3 is a failure. This isn't my opinion and feelings, this is what your numbers say. Or did support for Imperator stop because it was making too much money?

Know your customers. Your audience isn't playing your games because they have more megapixels and polygons than the new Call of Duty or Fortnite.

Paradox forums and subreddits aren't filled with "OMG guys my new butler looks so sweet, look at the amount of pixels on his hat!". They are 100% screenshots of MS paint looking maps and people loosing their minds over the combination of tiny minimalistic icons some guy managed to stack.

The 2D portraits are timeless and look fantastic. You will never get AAA++ Xbox kids hyperactive on sugar to play your games. There just aren't enough explosions, batman skins and microrewards per second. You won't get people who play The Sims either, because they want to paint their chouch and remodel the kitchen, not conquer Manchuria.

Did Cuphead the game need 3D models? Would it had been more sucesfull if it had 3rd rate Pixar characters instead of beautifully hand drawn 2D models? Isn't the video game market over saturated enough with "modder turned game dev" quality levels of 3D models?

You say not to worry, that the 3D portraits will be just in a small part of the game? Great, then REMOVE THEM. As you said, they aren't that big of a deal, so delete them if they are not that big of a deal.

Paradoxes last 3 flagship releases are failures or mediocrities. Just give people EU 4 with an optimized code. That's literally it. What's the singular complaint and excuse in EU4? People want more mechanics and the devs replying that the base code is too old. Its not people complaining that their army reformer isn't picking their nose in a 360 degree animation.

Remove 3D portraits, cut the UI windows to 20% of the screen and stop pushing this every new release.

 

[yurcick]

Victoria 3 is a failure. CK3 is a failure

I don't agree with these assessments (I haven't played Imperator so don't have an opinion).
I would also really hate "EU 4 with an optimized code".
However, I kinda agree with the stance on 3d portraits, they aren't a success and probably never will be in a GSG.

 

[alexkowal123]

Many more people liked the TT than disk liked, your statements are utterly baseless

 

[alexkowal123]

Also there is already a live thread on this

 

[Lindaegan]

To be clear, I hate the 3D portraits.

Nobody wants them.

Many people, including on this forum, want them.

Paradox, wake up already. Imperator was a failure. Victoria 3 is a failure. CK3 is a failure. This isn't my opinion and feelings, this is what your numbers say.

No they don't. CK3 is arguably more successful than CKII ever was, much to my chagrin. Imperator though, fine. Vic was always going to be niche. Paradox's flagship is hoi4 anyway.

Paradox forums and subreddits aren't filled with "OMG guys my new butler looks so sweet, look at the amount of pixels on his hat!".

They absolutely are. Go to r/CrusaderKings right now and tell me what you see. Either that or "le funny Redditor" going "haha guys see I banged my sister!!!! gimme updoots" which is annoying as hell and honestly worrying but clearly a major subsection of the game's consumers enjoy it.

Stop making stuff up to back up your point.

 

[trippyFoxy]

Nobody wants them. They ALWAYS look bad, they ALWAYS look like cartoon characters. They always break immersion when they are the only thing animated in the UI and end up making the rest of the game look dead and pulling you out of your fantasy.

Paradox, wake up already. Imperator was a failure. Victoria 3 is a failure. CK3 is a failure. This isn't my opinion and feelings, this is what your numbers say. Or did support for Imperator stop because it was making too much money?

Know your customers. Your audience isn't playing your games because they have more megapixels and polygons than the new Call of Duty or Fortnite.

Paradox forums and subreddits aren't filled with "OMG guys my new butler looks so sweet, look at the amount of pixels on his hat!". They are 100% screenshots of MS paint looking maps and people loosing their minds over the combination of tiny minimalistic icons some guy managed to stack.

The 2D portraits are timeless and look fantastic. You will never get AAA++ Xbox kids hyperactive on sugar to play your games. There just aren't enough explosions, batman skins and microrewards per second. You won't get people who play The Sims either, because they want to paint their chouch and remodel the kitchen, not conquer Manchuria.

Did Cuphead the game need 3D models? Would it had been more sucesfull if it had 3rd rate Pixar characters instead of beautifully hand drawn 2D models? Isn't the video game market over saturated enough with "modder turned game dev" quality levels of 3D models?

You say not to worry, that the 3D portraits will be just in a small part of the game? Great, then REMOVE THEM. As you said, they aren't that big of a deal, so delete them if they are not that big of a deal.

Paradoxes last 3 flagship releases are failures or mediocrities. Just give people EU 4 with an optimized code. That's literally it. What's the singular complaint and excuse in EU4? People want more mechanics and the devs replying that the base code is too old. Its not people complaining that their army reformer isn't picking their nose in a 360 degree animation.

Remove 3D portraits, cut the UI windows to 20% of the screen and stop pushing this every new release.

First time I’m writing on this forum. But I just have to disagree with you. I’ve put a lot of hours together with some of my friends on ck2 and then ck3, as well as vic 3 and we all really love the 3d portraits. They bring a much more realistic feeling to the game, and help bring you closer to the characters. I can’t wait to see my narcissistic looking generals during the 30 year war.

As for EU4 (which is the PDX title I’ve played the most) with an optimised engine I have to disagree even stronger. Most if not all of what we has been shown so far is really what I’ve been thinking was lacking in the game. I think what this game promises to be looks amazing.

Respectfully

 

[pdx-sanke]

First, I want to say that everyone is entitled to their opinion and of course we will keep an eye on any valuable feedback regarding Project Caesar as we have been doing since we started this process, but to comment on one point...

Paradox, wake up already. Imperator was a failure. Victoria 3 is a failure. CK3 is a failure. This isn't my opinion and feelings, this is what your numbers say. Or did support for Imperator stop because it was making too much money?

For Imperator, 3d characters were not at all one of the main points that caused it to not continue to receive development. People here can list probably some 10-20 points before getting into the character art.

For CK3, failure, really? I know it is a common theme to glorify CK2 in the forums, but there are no numbers that would put the games any close to each other in success, be it financial, engagement, reviews, anything. It is OK that sometimes the player sentiment in the forums (or reddit) is not necessarily shared across the entire player base of a game. The bigger our games get, the more different clusters of players we have, and we track as much as we can to make a game that everybody enjoy, but it is near impossible to satisfy 100% of people. Characters are definitely NOT a problem on CK3.

Then V3. Yeah, it is not Victoria 2 remastered. It is not a game for you if your really like the tactical aspect of little soldiers on a map, but it hardly comparable to Imperator in terms of numbers or player sentiment in the same timeline, so this "both are failure" sentiment is off. I understand there is a big division of sentiment about it, and a very engaged and negative community group especially in the forums/reddit dislike its take on the victorian setting, but I would also say that even in those groups, 3D characters is not one of their main issues they have with the game.

So I would argue that some concerns are valid, like effort needed to mod the game with the 3d characters, how they can look if not done well, maybe some potential problems with performance, etc, but there are some good benefits when it comes to immersion. And no, we do not push 3D characters to sell hats or whatever (Earth will stop moving the day business people can push anything in GSGs for the sake of making $$$).

Tinto believes this will make the game more interesting to players and is keen on taking the challenge to create engaging visuals while avoiding/minimizing the risks I mentioned above, even if characters are definitely not so upfront here as they are in the games you mentioned (sometimes I barely pay attention to the characters visuals when playing Caesar).

So again, we do value feedback, that is why we are doing this whole Tinto Talks thing, but a point just saying "I don't like it" is not super useful to us, because there are a lot of people that liked it as well, as you can check yourself on reactions to the character Tinto Talk.

 

[UlfDerDritte]

I mean, everyone is entitled to a bad opinion but damn, people keep demanding this kinda stuff with the attitude of wanting to speak to John Paradox's manager.
As people have pointed out, basically everything in your post is either just plain inaccurate or a personal opinion that's not even shared by the majority. Just the point about subreddits and forums not having 3d models shows that you have no clue what you're talking about. It's been a while since I looked at CK3's subreddit, but it's usually full of "look at how this person looks" type posts.

 

[imaginariii]

The problem with 3D models is that on low end computers they end up looking like aliens wearing skinsuits because of loss of details etc. 2D portraits such as the one on my profile picture are timeless and kind of charming in a way.

I think they already built the infrastructure to add 3d portraits to their new games so there is internal pressure to include them in every new release. You know like, "we already built all of this, why not use it, it is a fun gimmick" etc.

 

[bokorthedust]

You can bash Imperator, CK3 or Vicky 3 for a myriad of reasons, but even if we were to take your statement that they 'failed' at face value, they didn't do so because of the 3D models.

 

[Lord Lambert]

I understand there is a big division of sentiment about it, and a very engaged and negative community group especially in the forums/reddit dislike its take on the victorian setting, but I would also say that even in those groups, 3D characters are not their main issues they have with the game.

As a founding member of said group, and someone who isn't much a fan of the portraits in Vic3.... yeah the portraits in Vic3 don't hit the top 50 reasons why I dislike that game.

 

[Lord Canterbury]

First, I want to say that everyone is entitled to their opinion and of course we will keep an eye on any valuable feedback regarding Project Caesar as we have been doing since we started this process, but to comment on one point...



For Imperator, 3d characters were not at all one of the main points that caused it to not continue to receive development. People here can list probably some 5-10 points before getting into the character art.

For CK3, failure, really? I know it is a common theme to glorify CK2 in the forums, but there are no numbers that would put the games any close to each other in success, be it financial, engagement, reviews, anything. It is OK that sometimes the player sentiment in the forums (or reddit) is not necessarily shared across the entire player base of a game. The bigger our games get, the more different clusters of players we have, and we track as much as we can to make a game that everybody enjoy, but it is near impossible to satisfy 100% of people. Characters are definitely NOT a problem on CK3.

Then V3. Yeah, it is not Victoria 2 remastered. It is not a game for you if your really like the tactical aspect of little soldiers on a map, but it hardly comparable to Imperator in terms of numbers or player sentiment in the same timeline, so this "both are failure" sentiment is off. I understand there is a big division of sentiment about it, and a very engaged and negative community group especially in the forums/reddit dislike its take on the victorian setting, but I would also say that even in those groups, 3D characters is not one of their main issues they have with the game.

So I would argue that some concerns are valid, like effort needed to mod the game with the 3d characters, how they can look if not done well, maybe some potential problems with performance, etc, but there are some good benefits when it comes to immersion. And no, we do not push 3D characters to sell hats or whatever (Earth will stop moving the day business people can push anything in GSGs for the sake of making $$$).

Tinto believes this will make the game more interesting to players and is keen on taking the challenge to create engaging visuals while avoiding/minimize the risks I mentioned above, even if they are definitely not so upfront here as they are in the games you mentioned (sometimes I barely pay attention to the characters visuals when playing Caesar).

So again, we do value feedback, that is why we are doing this whole Tinto Talks thing, but a point just saying "I don't like it" is not super useful to us, because there are a lot of people that liked it as well, as you can check yourself on reactions to the character Tinto Talk.

You guys honestly have the patience of saints.
So from those of us how love the 3D models, thank you to the team. Please don't let the loud whining of the few stop you.
P.S. Where do we sign up for adding a DNA system and associated character models to Stellaris 2, so that I can spend all my time on an alien hybrid breeding programme.