An update to the Release Schedule

[Czecherboard]

In all fairness, it is not the consumers' fault that they released an unfinished product. Let's not reverse the blame here.

I'm not trying to reverse the blame, if it's unfinished, it's indeed not our fault. However, when they say they delay something (other than the DLCs), I would expect people to be glad for that, because it means the next thing won't be an unfinished product. But all I hear is "Where is the asset editor?" "Where is the console version?"

 

[Czecherboard]

By their own admission, the work on those two packs is finished. Done. Completed. So unless we are jaded, and simply do not believe their word, why shouldn't they release them? What you're saying, is that even though according to CO the packs are completed, some more works should still be done? Almost as if.... they couldn't be trusted when they say something is "completed"? Hmmmmm......

I'm not talking about the packs, I don't care about those. Maybe they just want it together with an update, or I don't know, that's why I didn't mention that. I'm talking about the constant pressure for the asset editor and console version. Those are the things that maybe need more work

 

[Diacritic]

I'd honestly much rather CO take their time than keep releasing patches that have huge gamebreaking bugs, so this is fine. I'm resigned at this point to the game maybe, in a few years, being something I want to play, and I've already spent my money. I've moved on to a dozen other games since this came out. Maybe one day enough community assets and mods will bring it nearly to par with CS1 but with a better engine and graphics. Frankly I thought it was better on release than six months later because the patches were so bad, and haven't even touched it since the failed beaches release.

It's an impossible position, I'd suggest you stop setting yourselves deadlines in public at all, frankly. If one day the game gets good enough to warrant a paid DLC then maybe that will freshen up players' interest, that seems like your best hope now.

 

[UsmanSyed]

It's an impossible position, I'd suggest you stop setting yourselves deadlines in public at all, frankly. If one day the game gets good enough to warrant a paid DLC then maybe that will freshen up players' interest, that seems like your best hope now.

They say hope is never a good strategy. I know they want to fix it, they have made big mistakes, and its sure is a long road. Thing is just like you have lost interest and moved on to other games, so will everyone else. Not many will sit around waiting for years to as to when this game will be fixed.

What really is bizarre to me is that that next month this game will be out for more than a year, and still we can call it its in beta stage. Which means even if this game was released this year, let alone last year, it still wasn't ready to be shipped! Just thinking about this makes my head spin, that how could they have judged it so badly, when time after time we have seen this same situation so many times. I know we should look for a bighter future, but the videogames industry is very violate, and you don't get much room to play with in the first place.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

you don't get much room to play with in the first place.

I think there's an enormous amount of goodwill out there for this game. Most people want it to work.

 

[Co Starring]

I think "goodwill" equals "thoughts and prayers", but that must be me.

Maybe we had high expectations before release day.
But we were not the people who created the schedule for the release of the game or the DLC we graciously wanted to support CO with.
I had tons of "Goodwill" when I pre-ordered the Ultimate Edition (how much was that again..?).
Less then a month away from the 1 year anniversary... well, we don't have to go through the details of what is missing or what was expected by thousands or tens of thousands of fans of C:S.

It's just... meh. Maybe there will be some goodwill (from me) with C:S 3, in 6-8 years.




(No personal feelings were intentionally hurt nor did I use any naughty words, but I expect to get another warning for expressing my feelings about the whole situation (again).
And probably a double warning for adressing a moderator's reply...)

 

[paveloush]

However, when they say they delay something (other than the DLCs), I would expect people to be glad for that, because it means the next thing won't be an unfinished product.

what about doing their work IN TIME? Just wandering whether you are same glad when your bus or plane is delayed in a year - after all it means that you don't have to go to B point by a walk.

 

[Lens888]

Cities Skylines 2 should really have launched as a work in progress as that's now the norm it seems. However it didn't because of a certain top 3 company that won't allow such a thing *cough* Microsoft

Subscription gaming doesn't allow for beta testing, it just sells you it and a whole bunch of people get upset cause they expected a fully functioning game. No excuses, CO & Paradox can deal with that as they said we will have it ready for "that date" and it clearly wasn't... but still at least we are playing it.. kind of

I've reserved myself to the fact that more work needs to be done and CO have in as many words said that. I still dropped UE money knowing that the product will get there but in saying that I'm not expecting a fully functioning game until maybe early 25 and hope that if more "delays" happen because of CO spending too much time on getting it to work on the Console >insert hysterical laughing here< ... that the fans that have stuck with the game and dropped big money and only got a city painter to date get something as a Thanks for sticking it out. Last time I checked on Steam there was a player base of around 6000-7000 and compared to some other games that cannot get above the 500 mark on a good day speaks volumes

Now I'm off to try out Manor Lords whilst I wait

 

[unoace1006]

What really is bizarre to me is that that next month this game will be out for more than a year, and still we can call it its in beta stage. Which means even if this game was released this year, let alone last year, it still wasn't ready to be shipped!

It’s a difficult comparison to make. But in general I think you raise a valid point. The game likely needed 1-2 years of additional development.

And releasing when they did forced them to reconsider priorities (i.e; performance, cim models, economy, building relocation tools, etc.) and weigh those against internal plans at the time (modding tools, content, bug fixes, etc.).

All of that being said; let’s continue providing constructive feedback; let’s try to remain optimistic and hopeful about the game’s future.

 

[Sequeira]

@co_avanya do you have any expected date to release the tourism hotfix?

 

[Lys91]

I'm not trying to reverse the blame, if it's unfinished, it's indeed not our fault. However, when they say they delay something (other than the DLCs), I would expect people to be glad for that, because it means the next thing won't be an unfinished product. But all I hear is "Where is the asset editor?" "Where is the console version?"

The problem is that people who have already paid for a product do not get what they paid for. If we were in a different situation, people would not complain because they want to polish things further. IMHO, if PDX/CO reimbursed the UE what they paid beyond the base game, there would be less tension in the forum. It is hard to criticize people when they complain that what they bought has been delayed once again. I think there needs to be some acknowledgment that people can be upset and complain rightfully. I also understand that if PDX/CO releases anything with the game in its current state, they will get another worse-rated DLC of all time. Both perspectives make perfect sense.

TLDR; the situation sucks.

 

[co_avanya]

@co_avanya do you have any expected date to release the tourism hotfix?

No ETA for a fix yet, sorry! But we'll let you know when there's news on the situation.

 

[Civ5rako]

No ETA for a fix yet, sorry! But we'll let you know when there's news on the situation.

On September 16th you told us:

"Hotels & Tourism
We see your frustrations with this issue and want to assure you that it’s the top gameplay issue we are currently investigating. We’re making adjustments to the likelihood of hotels appearing in your commercial areas and going through all the bug reports we have related to tourism. Once we have a fix ready, we’ll share more information, similar to what we did with homelessness. "

That has been 10 days ago and from your wording back then it seems you didn't just start right then, but were looking into it for some time already.

I really have to wonder how it can be that it takes more than 10 days to solve "the top gameplay issue".

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I really have to wonder how it can be that it takes more than 10 days to solve "the top gameplay issue".

In case it isn't abundantly clear, I don't speak for CO or PDX, but there's been the odd DD here and there about the bugfixing process for other games, and it can take weeks and months. It's about allocating and scheduling the work, but it's also about testing the fixes, including regression testing.

It's unreasonable to hassle people about this when they've let us know they're aware of it.

 

[Civ5rako]

In case it isn't abundantly clear, I don't speak for CO or PDX, but there's been the odd DD here and there about the bugfixing process for other games, and it can take weeks and months. It's about allocating and scheduling the work, but it's also about testing the fixes, including regression testing.

It's unreasonable to hassle people about this when they've let us know they're aware of it.

It is absolutely reasonable to remind a company with CO's track record that there are people who are waiting for solutions aka bug fixes.
They did introduce the homeless bug - according to constant reporting not fully fixed yet - and the tourism bug with their latest patches. As far as these two functionalities are concerned, they have managed to make the game worse instead of improving it.

They better come up with a solution really soon, if they want to keep their player base.

 

[co_avanya]

Some fixes are simple and quick to do, some fixes are complex and require a lot of testing and tweaking. Unfortunately, the issue with hotels and tourism falls in the latter category but we're making progress. I understand it's frustrating having to wait for a fix, but I can assure you that we want this fix out as soon as possible too.

 

[Civ5rako]

Some fixes are simple and quick to do, some fixes are complex and require a lot of testing and tweaking. Unfortunately, the issue with hotels and tourism falls in the latter category but we're making progress. I understand it's frustrating having to wait for a fix, but I can assure you that we want this fix out as soon as possible too.

With all due respect but we are hearing that story again and again.

From the point of view of an outsider it looks pretty simple though:
With each potential tourist the demand for lodging should increase, making it more and more likely that a new commercial building will become a hotel. As that hotel will have a certain capacity, this capacity then will work against the demand for further hotels.
I am aware of the fact that demand for lodging will compete with demand for other commercial entities, but then again, the city's attraction for tourists should overcome the competition at a certain point of time.
The whole process literally could be tested in an Excel sheet before starting to code it. Setting up such an Excel sheet doesn't take a person with experiences in Excel more than a day.

This is of course only a very rough sketch but you get the picture.
It does however lead me to another point which is the weak if not completely missing information about certain game functionalities.

 

[Licenturion]

With all due respect but we are hearing that story again and again.

No need to get so worked up about it.

You know as well as anybody when the tourism is fixed they will break another major system and the circle starts again. We have been doing this dance for a year now and there never has been a state of the game when there wasn't a major game breaking issue you have to work around or wait it out once more until the next patch.

I just wish people keep their wallet shut in protest. Gamers are starting to finally react to all this kind of BS. Look at what happens with Destiny, Concord and yesterday the last minute delay of Assassins Creed Shadows because Star Wars Outlaws sold bad due to a myriad of bugs. If you all go running for your credit card as soon as the first paid DLC drops you are just saying 'This is OK'. All the power is in your pocket; it is just not all people are realizing it yet.

 

[co_avanya]

With all due respect but we are hearing that story again and again.

From the point of view of an outsider it looks pretty simple though:
With each potential tourist the demand for lodging should increase, making it more and more likely that a new commercial building will become a hotel. As that hotel will have a certain capacity, this capacity then will work against the demand for further hotels.
I am aware of the fact that demand for lodging will compete with demand for other commercial entities, but then again, the city's attraction for tourists should overcome the competition at a certain point of time.
The whole process literally could be tested in an Excel sheet before starting to code it. Setting up such an Excel sheet doesn't take a person with experiences in Excel more than a day.

This is of course only a very rough sketch but you get the picture.
It does however lead me to another point which is the weak if not completely missing information about certain game functionalities.

This would describe the design part of the process, which is followed by implementation by a programmer and testing - both of which are usually where we spend the most time.

I get that repeating the fact that game development takes time does not make the wait any less frustrating, but I'm afraid that it remains true for this issue and likely many other issues we will tackle in the future. I hope you have something entertaining to spend your time on while we finish up.

 

[Civ5rako]

This would describe the design part of the process, which is followed by implementation by a programmer and testing - both of which are usually where we spend the most time.

Excuse me?

Your company is supposed to have done the programming already.
In the particular case we are talking about you did it while working on your patches - which, as you have told us, have undergone intensive testing.
Ok, so something did go terribly wrong in this process.
But if you know what you wanted to achieve and have a proper documentation, finding such an error doesn't take long.

I hope you have something entertaining to spend your time on while we finish up.

Be assured of that