20 years of experience and they dont even start with Desert Warfare Doctrine in HoI for Infantry?
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20 years of experience and they dont even start with Desert Warfare Doctrine in HoI for Infantry?
Getting Desert warfare doctrine means to be capable of supplying your troops well, to own the equipment you require and the ability to deploy and fast move your troops in this special terrain in order to achieve the best performance..
I don't think italian troops in north africa showed this skill. They lacked of gasoline, food, guns, munitions everything they need. Few soldiers were fully auto-trasported, fewer, if any, mechanized...
Bye
Darkey
so, seeing what Darkey said, the italian army was doomed.. just like it is now in CORE... it looks like something has been done right. 
Originally posted by Generalisimo
so, seeing what Darkey said, the italian army was doomed.. just like it is now in CORE... it looks like something has been done right.
Yes it was! In fact In late 1940 in Ethiopia a small army was enough to beat the italians and even in north africa the U.K. army was easily advancing to Tripoli until the arrival of Rommel and the afrika korps.. Can we simulate this in some way? For istance..
event Rommel to Northern Africa
Conditions : exist germany and italy
germany and italy allied
germany and italy at war with uk
uk controls tobruk and eastern lybia
command: sleep rommel (ger)
wake rommel (ita) (add rommel to the italian leaders)
addunit (2 improved light tank divisions
(afrika korps) (ita)
- manpower GER
Then if
Italy lose lybia or conquer Egypt and middle east
Return Rommel to Germany
It's a way to simulate the historical way.. not the real one.. but it's impossible with the event commands we have to send Rommel to N.A. in any other way.. I suppose..
Darkey
I would wait for 1.04 - as I saw it, main Italian problem (in HoI) in Africa is not lack of forces, but lack of supplies (as in real life).
In all my games Italian troops in Africa were walking here and there with org = 0. You can picture results... When Commando Supremo sent there 4 inf divisions and started sending them supplies (and Egypt already joined Allies), Italy took Egypt with ease.
I would not belive - but I've seen it.
Also, command for placing units in specific place is bugged - and you have no guaratee that Italian AI send Rommel as commander to Africa.
Problem is that Italy doesnt start with a supply route to Africa.
Absurdly they get oil, but no supplies.
Absurdly they get oil, but no supplies.
Well, there is one convoy - but it counts only 5 ships.
It can be edited - it's all in .inc files. Simple correction of .inc file and Italian army in Africa will be able to do something...
convoy =
{
id = { type = 17120 id = 10004 }
# convoy shipping supplies to Libya
path = { 903 894 888 1092}
transports = 15 # instead of 5
escorts = 1
oil = no
coal = no
supplies = yes
steel = no
rubber = no
}
That should do...
Of course, human player should be able to correct it anyway, but AI seems unable to do that...
Actually, they do. I rewrote convoy route to make it opposite to export of oil from Africa. Stupid, you say...
HI, just a question
In order to avoid problems after the separation of RSI from Italy and to ensure a reunion of both in Italy at the end of the war
maybe we can create some events: (below just a summary the if interested I can expand them
1)- R.S.I: defeated by allies Reign of Italy annex RSI
2)- Resignation of Vittorio Emanuele III (New King Umberto II)
3a)- Referendum (monarchy or republic?)
3b)- Democratic election (democracy (De Gasperi) or communism (Togliatti)?)
Darkey
In order to avoid problems after the separation of RSI from Italy and to ensure a reunion of both in Italy at the end of the war
maybe we can create some events: (below just a summary the if interested I can expand them
1)- R.S.I: defeated by allies Reign of Italy annex RSI
2)- Resignation of Vittorio Emanuele III (New King Umberto II)
3a)- Referendum (monarchy or republic?)
3b)- Democratic election (democracy (De Gasperi) or communism (Togliatti)?)
Darkey
yes, we need those events.
but i do not get 3a and 3b... can you explain them more?
also 2 will happen when Italy is defeated, right? (by RSI and their allies)
Ok Generalisimo now I explain
- Reign of Italy annex RSI
25-4-1945 While the Allies break though the gothic line, the partisans army rose in northern Italy and fought agaist RSI and german troops in order to liberate Italy from the Nazis. Many fascist member of the RSI arrested and executed in the following days
-King Vittorio Emanuele resign 9-5-1946
New King Umberto II
-2-6-1946
Referedum and democratic election together (it is the reason of 3a and 3b)
In the referendum Republic 12717923 votes
Monarchy 10719284 votes
New head of the state: Enrico De Nicola
and in the elections (in order to write the new republic constitution)
DC (De gasperi) and his coalition beated PCI (Togliatti) and a provisionary government is made in order to rule Italy
Head of government De Gasperi
- Reign of Italy annex RSI
25-4-1945 While the Allies break though the gothic line, the partisans army rose in northern Italy and fought agaist RSI and german troops in order to liberate Italy from the Nazis. Many fascist member of the RSI arrested and executed in the following days
-King Vittorio Emanuele resign 9-5-1946
New King Umberto II
-2-6-1946
Referedum and democratic election together (it is the reason of 3a and 3b)
In the referendum Republic 12717923 votes
Monarchy 10719284 votes
New head of the state: Enrico De Nicola
and in the elections (in order to write the new republic constitution)
DC (De gasperi) and his coalition beated PCI (Togliatti) and a provisionary government is made in order to rule Italy
Head of government De Gasperi
Sounds very good, we should include post-war struggles/elections in CORE as well I think. About Italian dissent: I would have lots of events (reaction on Molotow-Ribbentrop, Steel Pact, Allying with Germany, War with Westeren Allies, losing in Lybia, Ethiopia, Greece, landings on Sicily... but every time it should be quite small dissent hits (5-8%), it would also simulate the Italian troops being demoralized and the many deserters as at the moment they have a huge army and in normal circumstances they would easily defeat the Brittish.
regarding dissent from the ethiopian conquest:
from what i´ve read so far the italians were hardly convinced this campaign was any good when it started. in game terms, the dissent was high at the beginning and lowered by the fast progress and quick victory of the italian army.
from what i´ve read so far the italians were hardly convinced this campaign was any good when it started. in game terms, the dissent was high at the beginning and lowered by the fast progress and quick victory of the italian army.
Dissent from ethiopian conquest by UK in late 1940/1941 when the italian army surrendered at amba Alagi. Not the war in 1936
Darkey
Darkey
none of the sources i´ve read so far focus on that really. it rather always goes for: england invaded, ethiopian forces popped up again, italy smacked. out.
that´s not too much, eh
just started "Haile Selassie´s War" by Anthony Mockler, from a quick overlook he seems to go into depth. at least he´s the first source i have that describes single battles, has a military view and is not too "lionised" as Aetius put it.