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Originally posted by emperor dennis
If it didn't work right for Ethiopia, would it work for Italy? Can it screw up things like giving Sicily to the RSI or Milan to Allied Italy???
it just changes allegiance for units, so if the unit is alone in Sicily, the province will go to the RSI... but i see no problem in that, or yes? :confused:
as far as i tested, it gives all the provinces that you put in the revolt.txt, so if oyu put all northern italy, all northern will go to RSI. :D
THen, the randomly change allegiance appears ;)
 
Well; what if the allies control all of Southeren Italy and Sicily??? Can one unit retake it for RSI??? I think it will make the game a bit too random, if you start adding this the same should be done for the creation of Vichy, Bitter peace,...
 
Originally posted by emperor dennis
Well; what if the allies control all of Southeren Italy and Sicily??? Can one unit retake it for RSI??? I think it will make the game a bit too random, if you start adding this the same should be done for the creation of Vichy, Bitter peace,...
well, if there is one unit that it is in Sicily and that unit lets supose it want to change allegiance to RSI, what's the problem??? :confused:
also, it could be albania rather than sicily, or their african colonies... you never know... "less predictability" = "more fun".. just for me :D
 
But how strong would this make the RSI? And would Germany get it's share? The thing isn't that I don't want surprise but not a totally ahistorical kind of surprise. You could however add a possibility for Allied Italy to hold off German forces in the Aegean or in Albania. This would also add something unpredictable but it could also have happened in reality.
 
Originally posted by emperor dennis
But how strong would this make the RSI? And would Germany get it's share? The thing isn't that I don't want surprise but not a totally ahistorical kind of surprise. You could however add a possibility for Allied Italy to hold off German forces in the Aegean or in Albania. This would also add something unpredictable but it could also have happened in reality.
well, that's why i suggest the civil war command, we can test it first to see the outcomes.
also, now you never know what the AI does, you can create the RSI in north italy when the entire italian army is on the north... so although creating the RSI is historical, for the scenario you are playing and by how the AI have moved their units, it is totally stupid that the RSI is created. So i prefer the random option to avoid things like that. :D

EDIT: this looks like a PING PONG game, i answer here, you answer there and then i go there you came here :D :D
 
Well, then you should make the AI defend better, it has nothing to do with the event.
P.S.: I think we should end this game of Ping-Pong and try it out :)
 
Originally posted by emperor dennis
Well, then you should make the AI defend better, it has nothing to do with the event.
P.S.: I think we should end this game of Ping-Pong and try it out :)
but the AI defend itself, it doesn't defend their allies, so the CW doesn't work, you don't have d-day invasions... because the AI doesn't see their allies and NEVER uses the Military access, if you don't beleive me, just look at the european map when germany have advanced a bit into russian territory, you will see all the axis troops resting in their respective capitals waiting to be crushed when germany runs out of manpower.
I have already complained about this, and i hope they can solve it in the next patch. :D
 
If it would be solved that would be the best solution to all of it. And just one question: wich provinces could have a different loyalty as it would be really ahistorical to have large parts of the Italian Army joining the RSI while their superiors commanded otherwise. Only the true facists formed the RSI...
 
Originally posted by emperor dennis
If it would be solved that would be the best solution to all of it. And just one question: wich provinces could have a different loyalty as it would be really ahistorical to have large parts of the Italian Army joining the RSI while their superiors commanded otherwise. Only the true facists formed the RSI...
you just send them to sleep just in case... ;)
 
Sleep who? The facist leaders? But that wouldn't make maybe 1/3 of the Italian Army joining the RSI and becoming facist themselves...
 
The Italian Situation

I have done a lot of background reading about the Italian Surrender.

Basically, there was little to no fighting betwene Italian and RSI forces. They actually went out of their way to avoid fighting eachother (Parsisan forces were another issue, they hated the RSI). There were actual accounts of Italian fighters purposely poorly escorting US bombers when RSI fighters were in the region for two reasons. #1. they did not want to shoot down fellow Italian pilots, and #2. did not like the idea that these American bombers were bombing Italian cities on these missions.

Basically what happened to the Italian Army is...

IN ITALY:

The entire nation was divided into two parts. An Allied half (in the South) and an Axis half (in the North). Basically all Italian troops were disarmed in these regions by Allied and Axis forces. A certain percentage volunteered to serve in the respective regions, while the remainder went into respective POW camps. A very high number of Italians in the South joined the Allied forces, but only around 10% of those in the north joined the RSI (which grew to a maximum force size of 150 000). Also, many troops may not have volunteered for service beyond following orders and/or geography. There were some instances of Italian defiance, but that was only toward foreign forces (primarily against the Germans, there was very little resistence to the Allies).

This is what primarily happened for the air force units. Since they were highly trained, they were 'forced' into action by their respective commands, irregardless of personal politics. So, if an air unit was located in the North (a German controlled region) chances were that they would be flying for the RSI. The Italian government did issue a request to all pilots to fly their aircraft to Allied zones, but only a few hundred were able to do so that were located in the north.

The only fighting that really took place was between Italian and German forces. There was some fighting around and to the South of Rome (the extent of German influence) where Germany managed to take back Rome, but the Italian forces stopped further advances.

Commanders had very little influence over what happened in the region. If a commander in the North was pro Allied, there was no thought about proclaiming it, but rather was (with their men) marched off to POW camps. The only real fighting ocurred between Italians and other nationals was really on the fringes, where hope existed (like in Central Italy, the Aagean Sea, and Greece).

IN THE BALKANS:

Many troops (inlcuiding entire divisions) joined Partisan units, while the vast majority ended up as German POW's.

IN THE AEGEAN:

Troops in Rhodes remained loyal (but were eventually disarmed by the Germans and put into POW camps), but those in the Northern Islands were directly definiant to Germany and officially joined the Allies (along with some Italian garrisons in Western Greece).

COMMANDERS:

The vast majority of military commanders sided with the Allied Italian Government, while only a few went with the RSI. Also, the Fascist Militia put up some of the strongest resistence to the Germans in Italy. They had very little choice when it came to resisting or not. If they chose to resist, they tended to disband their forces and joined Partisan organizations, or decided that the situation was hopeless and surrendered their forces.

SUMMARY:

Italian soldiers did not have much control over their allegiance after the Surrender. Virtually all of them went to POW camps, and then formed their respective Allied or Axis Italian formations. There was no civil war. It would be interesting to see what would happen with an Italian Civil War, but I don't think that the political situation would have resulted in one. The Italian Army was paralized with indecision. The Germans found it safer to disarm all Italian forces, while the Allies required all of the Italian units to surrender.

Hitler had given up on any form of an Independent Italy after the Surrender. The RSI was formed mainly as a way in keeping Northern Italy somewhat pacified, due to the perception that they were at least under some form of Italian rule. Also, the RSI was valueable in their rearguard operations (fighting partisans and CAP against Allied bombing). Otherwize, Northern Italy was effectively under German military control.

SOLUTION:

The current situation will almost always result in Italy being overrun by Germany. I am going to have the Italian Peace accord with the Allies require Italy to give up virtually all of their Southern Italian Provinces to the Allies (half British, half American if the US is in the war).

Also, I have seen allies come to the rescue of their, well, allies. HOWEVER, this only ocurrs IF territory adjacent to ENEMY territory is the territory of the Alliance leader.

I did some tests as Italy vs. Germany and the RSI. When I quickly overran the most southern German Italian provinces and ran up against RSI territories and took them, and controlled provinces directly adjacent to core German provinces, I was met by an Axis force comprising of German, Croatian, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Vichy French. HOWEVER, when they pushed me back, the conquered territory went to the RSI. When Allied Italian territory was no longer adjacent to Axis German territory, the massive coalition force started to disperse. When I retook that RSI province, they quickly came back to finish me off, and when I pulled back, they then dispersed again. The third time I allowed them to push me back to territory that was given to Germany during the Italian Peace event, and remained German when the Axis occupied it. The Axis attack force did not disperse, but kept on coming down the boot of Italy. This force remained an international one as well.

So, it appears that coalition forces will keep their integrity and actually defend/advance together IF the territory under question IS, or IS IN CONTACT WITH territory from the key player in the Alliance. I have yet to determine wether or not this works with the Allies (wether coalition forces fight better on British territory vs. French or American), but I assume it to be so.
 
"...I was met by an Axis force comprising of German, Croatian, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Vichy French..."

all those are SURELLY EF send to Germany, they are not controlled by their respective countries. :(


"So, it appears that coalition forces will keep their integrity and actually defend/advance together IF the territory under question IS, or IS IN CONTACT WITH territory from the key player in the Alliance."

nope, as i have stated before, those were EF, not forces controlled by their respective owner, if you look carefully you will see that the AI that doesn't have a limit with an enemy is guarding their capital :eek:


"I have yet to determine wether or not this works with the Allies (wether coalition forces fight better on British territory vs. French or American), but I assume it to be so."

i can assure it doesn't work that way, i keep testing that for the CW and it didn't work :mad:
 
Italy Surrenders VI

Ok, hopefully this one is close, or is the final Italy surrenders event.

ADDED: Increased requirements for Regime Change:
#1 Tunis must not be controlled by Italy.
#2 Added Roma and Taranto for the extra Italian province for a requirement

ADDED: Increased requirements for Negotiations:
#1 Random 25% (checked every 7 days) gives Italy time to reconquer
#2 Added all of Sicily a requirement
#3 Added any southern Italian province as an extra requirement

ADDED: Changed what happens for Armistice:
#1 All territories (but Taranto) in Italy are given to the British (so they will hopefully continue fighting)

ADDED: Event England's Allies:
#1 Checks to see if the USA is one of England's Allies and gives the Western Half of Italy to them.

So, now the triggers to start the event are more complicated. It is easy to trigger the regime change, but, triggering the surrender requires a % chance (25%) plus conquering all of Sicily, Ethiopia, North Africa and one province of Southern Italy (what the Allies had at the time of the surrender). It gives Italy a chance of taking back these provinces, but also gives the Allies a range of bases to attack (so Italy just does not have to defend 3 bases with everything it has). It still is a bit 'deterministic', but there are a lot of outs, and a lot of chance involved in this event.

Code:
###################################
# Italy Surrenders: Regime Change #
###################################

event = { 
	id = 462021
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		alliance = { country = ITA  country = GER }
		war = { country = GER country = SOV }
		war = { country = ITA country = ENG }
		NOT = {
		control = { province = 1085 data = -1 } #Tripoli not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1097 data = -1 } #Tobruk not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1087 data = -1 } #Sirt not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1295 data = -1 } #Addis Ababa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1081 data = -1 } #Tunis not controlled by Italy
		OR = {
		control = { province = 908 data = -1 } #Roma not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 893 data = -1 } #Taranto not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 898 data = -1 } #Siracusa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 897 data = -1 } #Messina not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 903 data = -1 } #Cosenza not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 901 data = -1 } #Napoli not controlled by Italy
		}
		}
	}
	
	name = "Failure of Fascism"
	desc = "Due to failure on all fronts King Victor Emmanuel demands the arrest of Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 1
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Arrest Mussolini" #Pro-Allied regime takes power
		command = { type = headofgovernment which = 3011 }
		command = { type = foreignminister which = 3012 }
		command = { type = armamentminister which = 3013 }
		command = { type = ministerofsecurity which = 3014 }
		command = { type = ministerofintelligence which = 3015 }
		command = { type = chiefofstaff which = 3016 }
		command = { type = chiefofarmy which = 3017 }
		command = { type = chiefofnavy which = 3018 }
		command = { type = chiefofair which = 3019 }
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462022 } #Italy Surrenders
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Keep Mussolini in power*"
		command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -200 } #Desertions
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 462022 }
	}
}

###################################
# Italy Surrenders: Vatican Talks #
###################################

event = { 
	id = 462022
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		random = 25
		NOT = {
		control = { province = 1085 data = -1 } #Tripoli not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1097 data = -1 } #Tobruk not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1087 data = -1 } #Sirt not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1295 data = -1 } #Addis Ababa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 898 data = -1 } #Siracusa not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 897 data = -1 } #Messina not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 1081 data = -1 } #Tunis not controlled by Italy
		OR = {
		control = { province = 908 data = -1 } #Roma not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 893 data = -1 } #Taranto not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 903 data = -1 } #Cosenza not controlled by Italy
		control = { province = 901 data = -1 } #Napoli not controlled by Italy
		}
		}
	}
	
	name = "Negotiations"
	desc = "The Allies offer Italy a 2-part surrender agreement. These were known as the Short Terms and the Long Terms. These Terms included the cessation of hostilities, returning of allied prisoners, surrender of the military arsenal and the establishment of an allied military government.  Italy is given time to decide."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 7 # Check for trigger conditions every seven days
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = alignment which = democratic value = 200 }
	}
}

###############################
# Italy Surrenders: Armistice #
###############################

event = { 
	id = 462023
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		event = 462022
		}
	
	name = "Decisive Decision"
	desc = "The Allies are at the gates of our nation.  What shall we do?"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 30  #30 days after Italian Regime Change event
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }
	
	action_a = {
		name = "Surrender to the Allies"
		command = { type = leave_alliance }
		command = { type = peace which = ENG value = 1 }
		command = { type = peace which = SOV value = 1 }
		command = { type = independence which = u01 value = 1 } #RSI created
		command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
		command = { type = control which = GER value = 567 } #Venezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 905 } #Bologna
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 906 } #Frienze
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 907 } #Ancona
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 910 } #Parma
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 912 } #Milano
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 913 } #La Spezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 932 } #Torino
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 933 } #Genoa
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 885 } #Rhodos
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1084 } #Sahba
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1085 } #Tripoli
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1086 } #Misratuh
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1087 } #Sirt
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1088 } #Al Aquylah
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1089 } #Aujila
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1092 } #Bardiyah
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1094 } #Al Jaghbub
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1095 } #Bir El Hakim
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1096 } #Darnah
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1097 } #Tobruk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1098 } #Benghazi
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1105 } #Zallah
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1106 } #Al Irk
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1107 } #Al Khofrah
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1285 } #Asmara
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1287 } #Berbera
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1299 } #Obbia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1302 } #Mogadishu
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1289 } #Djibouti
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1293 } #Dagabur
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1290 } #Gondar
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1288 } #Makale
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1297 } #Jimma
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1295 } #Addis Ababa
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1294 } #Harar
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1296 } #Magalo
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 897 } #Messina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 898 } #Siracusa
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 903 } #Cosenza
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 902 } #Potenza
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 901 } #Napoli
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 900 } #Bari
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 908 } #Rome
		command = { type = capital which = 893 } #Taranto
		command = { type = access which = ENG }
		command = { type = access which = FRA }
		command = { type = access which = CAN }
		command = { type = access which = USA }
		command = { type = access which = AST }
		command = { type = access which = NZL }
		command = { type = access which = SAF }
		command = { type = access which = BEL }
		command = { type = access which = HOL }
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3002 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3003 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3004 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3005 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3006 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3008 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3009 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3010 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3031 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3032 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3033 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3034 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3035 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3036 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3037 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3038 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3039 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3040 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepminister which = 3041 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6046 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6052 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6083 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6090 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6104 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6212 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6214 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6218 } #Loyal Fascist
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6005 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6029 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6055 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6069 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6107 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6135 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6136 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6155 } #German POW
		command = { type = sleepleader which = 6156 } #German POW
		command = { type = trigger which = 462024 } #Triggers England's Allies Event
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "Remain as a part of the Axis*"
		command = { type = dissent value = 20 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = -500 } #Desertions
	}
}

######################################
# Italy Surrenders: England's Allies #
######################################

event = { 
	id = 462024
	random = no
	country = ENG
	
	trigger = {
		exists = u01
		war = { country = USA country = GER }
		}
	
	name = "England's Allies"
	desc = "When Italy surrendered, responsibility was divided up equally among the Allied powers."
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = USA value = 901 } #Napoli
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = USA value = 908 } #Roma
	}
}

######################################
# Italy Surrenders: Rescue Mussolini #
######################################

event = { 
	id = 462025
	random = no
	country = GER
	
	trigger = {
		exists = u01
		}
	
	name = "Repubblica Sociale Italiana"
	desc = "The Germans established a puppet RSI government in Northern Italy under the nominal command of a rescued Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 15
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = addcore which = 563 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 912 } #Milano
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 913 } #La Spezia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 932 } #Torino
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = u01 value = 933 } #Genoa
		command = { type = make_puppet which = u01 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 462026 } #RSI
	}
}

#########################
# Italy Surrenders: RSI #
#########################

event = { 
	id = 462026
	random = no
	country = u01
	
	# Triggered by Action A of GER 'Rescue Mussolini' Event
	
	name = "Repubblica Sociale Italiana"
	desc = "The Germans established a puppet RSI government in Northern Italy under the nominal command of a rescued Mussolini."
	style = 0
	
	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = access which = GER }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 912 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 913 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 932 }
		command = { type = add_division which = militia when = 933 }
		command = { type = alliance which = GER }
		command = { type = access which = GER }
	}
}

#####################################
# Italy Surrenders: Join the Allies #
#####################################

event = { 
	id = 462027
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		event = 462026
		}
	
	name = "Italy joins the Allies"
	desc = "With half of Italy occupied by Germany and the RSI, the Italian government joins the Allies."
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
	offset = 20
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = alliance which = ENG }
	}
}

######################################
# Italy Surrenders: The Italian Army #
######################################

event = { 
	id = 462028
	random = no
	country = ITA
	
	trigger = {
		event = 462027 #Triggered by 'Join the Allies' event, and a 50% chance of Y/N
		random = 50
		}
	
	name = "Axis disarm Italian Forces"
	desc = "Historically most Italian forces in the Balkans were caught by suprise by the Armistice and were disarmed by German forces."
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 751 } #Novi Pasor
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 752 } #Pristina
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 753 } #Podgorica
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 754 } #Tirona
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 820 } #Vlore
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 874 } #Ioannia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 889 } #Agrinion
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 875 } #Larisa
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 891 } #Athinai
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 890 } #Patrai
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 2103 } #Argostoli
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 755 } #Skopje
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 2159 } #Chalkis
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 872 } #Thessaloniki
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 735 } #Nis
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 737 } #Valjevo
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 738 } #Beograd
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 747 } #Dubrovnik
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 744 } #Mostar
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 745 } #Sarajevo
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 740 } #Osijek
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 624 } #Zagreb
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 742 } #Banja Luka
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 743 } #Split
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 569 } #Rijeka
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 570 } #Ljubljana
	}
}
 
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 563 } #Bolzano
command = { type = control which = GER value = 567 } #Venezia
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 905 } #Bologna
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 906 } #Frienze
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 907 } #Ancona
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 910 } #Parma
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 912 } #Milano
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 913 } #La Spezia
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 932 } #Torino
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 933 } #Genoa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = GER value = 885 } #Rhodos
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1084 } #Sahba
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1085 } #Tripoli
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1086 } #Misratuh
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1087 } #Sirt
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1088 } #Al Aquylah
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1089 } #Aujila
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1092 } #Bardiyah
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1094 } #Al Jaghbub
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1095 } #Bir El Hakim
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1096 } #Darnah
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1097 } #Tobruk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1098 } #Benghazi
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1105 } #Zallah
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1106 } #Al Irk
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1107 } #Al Khofrah
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1285 } #Asmara
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1287 } #Berbera
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1299 } #Obbia
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1302 } #Mogadishu
command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1289 } #Djibouti
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1293 } #Dagabur
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1290 } #Gondar
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1288 } #Makale
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1297 } #Jimma
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1295 } #Addis Ababa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1294 } #Harar
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 1296 } #Magalo
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 897 } #Messina
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 898 } #Siracusa
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 903 } #Cosenza
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 902 } #Potenza
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 901 } #Napoli
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 900 } #Bari
command = { type = secedeprovince which = ENG value = 908 } #Rome







Wouldn't this give the entire South of Italy to the UK, including Rome, wich would be totally ahistorical: the Allies might have just landed in Taranto and they would already control Rome? Where did Monte Cassino go? A better solution would be for ITA to secede all their Mainland Italian provinces to GER (they can only secede those not controlled by the allies so this would be historical) Then the allies would have to give all their controlled provinces to Italy except for the African ones. And Al Kufrah and Al Sabah should go to the Free French, just like in real life. Maybe they should go to the Free french from the moment they own North-Africa (Torch events). The rest looks OK, but did you test it already???
 
The Germans had to retake this territory, which only amounted to Rome being retaken from the Italians after some confused fighting (they never made it south of Roma and Ancona). The Germans were thrown back at Bari by Italian forces as well.

The Allies were basically given Southern Italy by the armistice, as the Germans had only enough forces/time to secure bases north of Rome before they could move to forward southern positions. There was a period of inactivity while both sides consolidated what was theirs.

Also, Ancona is where Monte Casino is located.

The other problem with your plan is that the Allies will withdraw all of their forces if they give back territory to Italy. The AI tends to only really like to fight on territory that is theirs. I have noticed this with tests of Germany, and even watching how the French and British operate in North Africa. The only way to keep them fighting for the Allies is to give up territory to them.

There are reasons for what I did, based in one part by history, and another part by gameplay.

(I am not sure what to do about North Africa and French control, since they are so weak, giving territory to them to defend is opening the Allies up to easy attack, as the British will not defend it)

The main problem that I have when I run my longterm tests is that Nationalist Spain seems to always join the Allies, making North Africa a strong Axis base. So, the Allies never get a chance to invade Italy. I think that we have to cut down on the influencing, as the Axis tend to easily do whatever they want (they get every neutral nation on their side without much trouble).
 
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Maybe you are right, but I do recall the allies having to fight near Monte Cassino (Rome and not Ancona province) before they got Rome... And they also diidn't get Napoli for free... The idea would be to let Italy secede all of its mainland provinces to Germany; this would mean it could never secede those provinces wich are already controlled by the allies. After that Italy would receive the mainland provinces from the Allies wich in turn would receive some provinces from Italy to create a controlled province; this would help solve both problems at once. :)
And about the French part of Lybia: it is only some Sahara desert but it should be there for accuracy. However after the Torch event has struck it could happen, the Axis would have no bases in Africa and those are inland provinces; they wouldn't need real defending.
 
Well, continuing the discussion from another thread, i suggest doing what this guy said:

Originally posted by Darkey
Hi,
I've played HOI since version 1.1 (now I'm playing the 1.3b).
Many people said that winning as Germany is too easy and I agree but I want to point the attention to another country of the Axis that I think unbalanced for the game..... Italy.

First of all In HOI Italy has an Industrial Capacity too high:

These are the values calculated in the "Journey of European Economic history" for the industrial potential of the major powers in 1938 (as percentage of United Kingdom in the 1900)

Italy 46
Germany 214
Japan 88
France 74
United Kingdom 181
URSS 152
USA 528

So Italy has in the game too much industrial power, compared to the other major countries

The I observed how these IC points are divided among italian regions:
The industrial-triangle Genoa-Turin-Milan has got less than 40 IC where Rome has got 20! The southern regions have an high level of IC (even 10 points) when there were a poor number of industries.
The main war-industry production was located in the industrial triangle (Fiat-Ansaldo produced the poor tanks and vehicles of the italian army). I suggest that the 80% of the Italian I.C. must be in the northern regions (Bologna and above) while only few I.C. in the rest of the country.

Another major problem of Italy was the lack of raw materials:

The coal production was far less than what Italy has in the game;
I know that in order to play Italy (that lacks also of Oil and rubber) a huge amount of coal is required BUT historically Mussolini asked Hitler to deliver Italy the coal It needs as a requirement before DoW on France in 1940.
Maybe There could be an event to simulate the delivery like there's the Lend-lease Act for United Kingdom.

Finally I had a suggest to reduce the potential of pre-war vehicles (in the italian army at least)

the pre-war bomber P108 was a danger for the pilot more than for the enemies...
italian fighters were similar .... can't be compared to the german and allied counterparts...
The tank produced by the Fiat-Ansaldo were a disaster... especially before the war: the pre-war tank used in Ethiopia could be destroyed by submachinegun bursts as well as stone-throwing! (it happened once in Ethiopia)

Finally I suggest to create an event for the surrender of Italy (after losing african colonies and invasion of Sicily) as historically happened in 1943

Bye

Darkey

i will not reduce their IC too much, because that will make them unplayable, but i will move their industry to the north. :D