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C.O.R.E. Tech Tree: Land units, techs and doctrines

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Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll update the italy.inc file here, no problem. I've got less than 20 *.inc files left, after that I'll start on the *.ai files. There's a few countries missing AI files (like Romania!) :( I'll make it a priority to get them unique AI files.


Hmmm.... running another handsoff game and the "We need Tanks, not Forts" event just fired for USSR. The level 3 fort in Pskov is still there, all others were removed. Pskov is province #785, is is by design or oversight that the forts are not abandoned there?
 
AI files

The *.inc files are all done, there's 21 countries that I reckon should have their own AI files but have only default files. I'll start looking at it but it will take some time.

About the technology section, I noticed a lot of countries have values like 1.1 and 3.9 and so on. The values are relative, so if you have 1.0 and 4.0 then the R&D should be four times higher in the latter. Using 1.1 and 3.9 is equivalent to using 1.0 and 3.5 so I suggest we all try to keep that in mind and use rounded values that are easier to work with.

I've completed the integration of the AI files. Hopefully I've not missed too much, please check for errors when I send it back. I'm doing some editing for readability right now.

PS Just watching the Red Army taking over the world. They are at the gates of Berlin and Romania, Finland, Persia and Manchukuo are gone. Any more of this and I think those Post_War events might fire :)
 
The AI files are done, I've added the following:

Afghanistan
Albania
Austria
Bolivia
Bulgaria
Chile
Colombia
Czechoslovakia
Ecuador
Greece
Ireland
Iraq
Mongolia
Persia
Peru
Phillipines
Romania
Siam
Turkey
Venezuela
Yugoslavia

The files are relatively simple but include unique build priorities, province garrison priorities, research priorities, admiral (for nations with ports) and so on. Hopefully it should help those countries develop a bit more intelligently and make sure they defend themselves. Testing will of course be needed but I'm taking a break now :D

I've not made AI files for Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Paraguay or Uruguay. Same goes for Luxembourg, Nepal, Bhutan, Panama and some other one-province minors in the Middle East. They have all been set to use the minor.ai file for now.
 
Naval OOB questions

I haven't changed anything that I didn't have specific knowledge of. The only reson that I can think that there are destroyer groups with submarine groups was the their traditional role as scouting elements and flagships. I have no knowledge to either confirm or deny whether not that is the historical set-up. MDow
 
Originally posted by Steel
Hmmm.... running another handsoff game and the "We need Tanks, not Forts" event just fired for USSR. The level 3 fort in Pskov is still there, all others were removed. Pskov is province #785, is is by design or oversight that the forts are not abandoned there?
Click to expand...

Oversight... too bad it sneaked into released version. :(

EDIT:
About Italian submersible destroyer :)D ) - if it's part of original file, then we have 2 options:
1) Changing model from destroyer on submarine,
2) Leaving it as it is.
Your call, I would prefer 2nd option.

About Red Army - I hope it happens some time after Barbarossa, not 2 months later? For human player USSR is not pushover anymore, difficulty level is not extreme, but decent IMO - I played game as Germany and it's September 1941, Moscov and Piter are mine, but Stalingrad holds. And my casualities are huge - I had to stop advance of my tanks (sic!) like 3-4 times to replenish those. :D
 
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Originally posted by Steel
I'll correct the Pskov and Italian problems tonight. No conclusions on USSR vs GER yet.
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It's possible that thanks to combined effect of "Blocade events" and Great Patriotic War tech Soviets would be too powerfull compared to Germans - if it happens, I can change triggers in Great War event (it would fire later).
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
It's possible that thanks to combined effect of "Blocade events" and Great Patriotic War tech Soviets would be too powerfull compared to Germans - if it happens, I can change triggers in Great War event (it would fire later).
Click to expand...


Too powerful for German AI, not for human player ;) so let's leave GPW tech for now and I'll just put an AI = no trigger condition on the most severe blockade events. Can you look at tweaking the German AI files as well, there might be room for improvement there - I'm especially concerned about the situation where Germany has not finished Maginot provinces but are at war with USSR.
 
Originally posted by Steel
Can you look at tweaking the German AI files as well, there might be room for improvement there - I'm especially concerned about the situation where Germany has not finished Maginot provinces but are at war with USSR.
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Yes, I noticed that - but thanks to level 10 forts it's extremely hard to make AI attack Maginot. It would be better to make event that lowers Maginot by 5-6 pionts after Vichy trigger. It would also make German defence of Wesrn Europe more real - right now they can use the same Maginot to stop attack from West. :rolleyes:
 
What is Blitzkrieg?

As some of you probably noticed. Copper and I had a discussion going last week regarding the spanish civil war exp. event for germany.

i argued that the doctrine levels removed in the techmod made it
impossible for germany to reach the operational maneauver doctrine(the one described as defining blitzkrieg) before the war breaks out aug. 30 1939.

What I would like is your oppinions on which doctrine is the one historically used by germany in their 39 campaign in poland and later in France(spring 40)

Im am leaning towards operational maneauver because of the descriptions but I may be the one wrong here.

IMO germany should be able to research the doctrine that we together define as the Blitzkrieg doctrine(not the +1 move doctrine that germany has) before war in 39 and be able to do so with the techs gained in the spanish civil war event(if they dont support franco they will not be able to research it but that ok IMO. nothing comes for free)

Ghost_dk
 
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One sollution could be to move force concentration and armoured spearhead into lover leves of research and then germany would still be able to make it before the war.

maybe force conc. into early war combat analysys and armoured spearhead into early war combat testing.

Ghost_dk
 
Originally posted by Ghost_dk
One sollution could be to move force concentration and armoured spearhead into lover leves of research and then germany would still be able to make it before the war.

maybe force conc. into early war combat analysys and armoured spearhead into early war combat testing.

Ghost_dk
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I'm affraid we can talk about it even longer and we won't find fully acceptable solution - giving both ability to develop new doctrines before war to Germany AND keeping game balanced.

IMO the best solution is to play game as it is now and then vote. Personally I had no problem with kicking asses of all Western, Northern and Southern Europe countries with starting doctrines (I invested in beter tanks and infantry instead, and started development of doctrines around 1939). V. Hard/Furious, choice C of HARD core.

I could agree that Blitzkrieg doctrine could be more developed (although speed modification is very powerful bonus). Some more org for arm/mot/mech units maybe?
 
Copper Nicus, I've completed the event integration but I may have overlooked some parts since I'm not familiar with the work and there's quite a few events. I'll provide an alpha release installer so you can do a compare and check if I've missed anything.
 
If I understand it correctly the Techmod increases the relative strength of infantry as compared to militia. This appears to have skewed the Far East results, NatChi has mostly militia and I'm getting pretty solid results in test games:

v0.3 + hotfix => standoff with Japan taking only northern and coastal China, only 1 game where NatChi was annexed

add Techmod => Japan annexes China

Was it intentional that the gap between infantry and militia was widened? If not, perhaps we should look at boosting militia somewhat. Note that this may be a tech level issue, perhaps NatChi should have some additions to current tech levels:

techlevels = { 1000 4000 11000 14000 }
techapps = { 1001 4001 11001 }
 
I kind of like the effect that making Improved Tanks take a year to develop, and require mid-war doctrines. What are the thoughts on doing the same for fighters and bombers? Right now it's quite possible to have improved fighters and bombers by 1939.
 
Originally posted by DoK
I kind of like the effect that making Improved Tanks take a year to develop, and require mid-war doctrines. What are the thoughts on doing the same for fighters and bombers? Right now it's quite possible to have improved fighters and bombers by 1939.
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This would make the minors virtually unplayable, as there are only four countries that can spend s many resources to aquire something in a year or more... And there were more than three countries that managed to construct decent fighters...
Cheers
 
Then maybe have Improved fighters/bombers require a mid-war doctrine advance.

In reality, though, there were only 5 countries which did produce successful mid- and late-war aircraft designs. The US, England, Russia, Germany, and Japan. Some of Japan's designs derived from German components (the Ki-61 for instance), and the US P-51 owes its engine to England. So even for the major powers, they didn't always make it without help.

Most of the minor power's decent fighters came on in the early part of the war (for many obvious reasons) and would be considered obsolete by even 1943 standards.

It just seems that the balance is off when in the spring of 1940 Germany is fielding Pz IVD's ... and Hs129's and Fw190's. Making improved fighter and bomber prototypes dependant on something like Early War Combat Testing would seem to fix this without putting too big an extra bite on resources.

Which could make minors more playable as their fighter technology would stay valid longer.
 
Originally posted by Steel
Was it intentional that the gap between infantry and militia was widened? If not, perhaps we should look at boosting militia somewhat. Note that this may be a tech level issue, perhaps NatChi should have some additions to current tech levels:

techlevels = { 1000 4000 11000 14000 }
techapps = { 1001 4001 11001 }
Click to expand...

Nah, the intention was reinforcement of infantry against tanks/mechs/you name it.
No idea how to fix that - changing techs to upgrade militia would do nothing on the Far East, because they use basically unupgraded units... I think about changing basic militia stats, but it could make them too good in cost/effect terms.
 
Originally posted by DoK
It just seems that the balance is off when in the spring of 1940 Germany is fielding Pz IVD's ... and Hs129's and Fw190's. Making improved fighter and bomber prototypes dependant on something like Early War Combat Testing would seem to fix this without putting too big an extra bite on resources.

Which could make minors more playable as their fighter technology would stay valid longer.
Click to expand...

Thing to consider in next version of the techmod... I would have to check how changes like that modify balance of the game - right now I have some serious successes in forcing Allies to fast develop air techs (in my recent games USA strat bombed me in 1941 with improved heavy bombers, as well as RAF and Soviet WWS are armed in basic/improved planes).

Halibutt@:
You mean it would be harder to play "minor empire"? ;) Well, I'm not that sure. Most of the "empire games" base on conquest at the start of the game, and later you simply can not afford to stay out of main alliances. In most cases best option for late game alliance are Allies - they share techs very often. :D
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Nah, the intention was reinforcement of infantry against tanks/mechs/you name it.
No idea how to fix that - changing techs to upgrade militia would do nothing on the Far East, because they use basically unupgraded units... I think about changing basic militia stats, but it could make them too good in cost/effect terms.
Click to expand...

Ok... effectively this downgrades part of the army for 23 countries in C.O.R.E. with probably the highest impact in Ethiopia and the two China's, but also the Spanish Civil War where militia is added through events. I suggest we test it with increased militia stats as that's the easiest fix and having battles last a little longer is generally not a bad thing IMHO. If it breaks the game we can then look at other solutions.

What about motorised infantry, should their ground defence also be changed? Paratroopers? Mountain infantry?
 
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