Chill 1; Easy And Simple. (Normal and Relaxed players only, RP encouraged)

[ForzaA]

10 Provs, I guess it was quite within those limits ...

Even if it is, I still don't think you should have done it.

I haven't traded maps with anyone yet.. so that gives me 3(?) sessions I didn't trade maps, plus (maybe) this time, plus after next session, so I can happily take 50 provs I don't know by sacking a friendly capital?

And who knows.. Juv might have thought "never mind those provinces, noone else knows them anyway, I can always start next session with taking them" and then you prevent that by BENDING (if not breaking- if not the letter then certainly the spirit) the rules.

The problem of bending the rules is it creates a shady zone.. when is it allowed, and when is it not? This time it was very obvious it was planned as such by Spain and Venice, and that the English map conquest was a real war. - but what if I sack Paris? London? Copenhagen? When is it "gamey" and should it be edited, and when is it allowable?

 

[ForzaA]

I played according the spirit of this game without trying to kill my neighbors, expanding in normal border (we saw a lot of Spain with more italian lands and even with Portugal lands) and not screwing the game.

I can honestly say I have never seen a game with Spain holding more than the current holdings in Italy, and certainly not "and not screwing the game".

At this time, Spain can make or break virtually every war or turn it into a world war. If all wars have to be fought with (de facto) Spanish consent, I consider the game screwed.
We are not there yet, mind you, but we are close, and that is what I fear for, and attempt to work against.

And the map complaint was mostly against Adam, not Venice or Spain or Tonio.

Never allowed, unless you edit all other provs out exept the 10 max you took ... Don't think it is shady at all.

ah, can you give me a clear definition of a real war vs. a fake war then?

 

[ForzaA]

Spain was never offensive since kicking Venice from Spanish land almost 100 years ago. Well, looks like you think that any strong nation screws the game even without the action. I wonder why you don`t notice OE with huge income & manpower. You have to tell in each game that OE screws the game with their biggest manpower.

OE doesn't have the means to project her power much further than Austria... (no navy)
And that you didn't USE your ability, doesn't mean it wasn't/isn't there.
And yes, I do consider a game where one nation can (not necessarily does) dictate everyone else's behaviour, I consider that screwed, and I prefer to act against that before it happens.

Well, i can`t persuade every guy with rich imagination. Forzaa, if you sold your country instead of being strong without any challenge, that doesn`t mean i should follow you. Specially funny you gave your lands to worse fighter than you.

I was naïve back then thinking that annexing a player nation, or crippling it, wasn't chill [and I must honestly say I didn't think Barnius was THIS bad a fighter ]

Why does everybody think he can issue own opinion on the Spanish actions if that is done according rules ? It is annoying bitching and nothing more.

right, I say Adam and you make it Spanish actions again... My point (and I believe of others too) is that he used a technique that comes very close to Trade Maps (which is explicitly forbidden) to gain provinces.

Indeed, really, answer me another question. Give me clear definition what is allowed and not allowed in fake war ? If rules doesn`t mind. Or we should always listen to the opinion of the club, who think they always have right on opinion against rules, and who think their opinion is always right and over the rules.

Apparently, you are of the "if it isn't explicitly forbidden it's allowed", fine, but I am not, and I consider it an unfair advantage if someone follows that school of thought.

Ah, come on! Spain is very powerful with all Italy but that doesn't mean the game is screwed. Spain has some rough times coming as we all know and I'm sure it will be a challenge to hold on to Italy. There is a very powerful OE to balance out Spain and France/England/Flanders have a certain power themselves, even if far from Spains. I think Spain would have lost it's last war if another power had interfered on Englands side. Maybe I'm wrong but if all it takes are two powers to make an impression on the superpower of the time it's not all that bad.

I said, "close to", and if it takes some pointing out to keep it at "close to" rather than "over", then that is what I do. I prefer ingame interaction, rather than Tonio restraining himself, to keep it that way.

 

[ForzaA]

Hmm, where does this strange idea come from, ForzaA?

Machiavelli 3.



And how hard is it to understand that I'm saying that Spain is NOT unstoppable (yet) ?

 

[ForzaA]

Thanks to Tonio, who followed that old Chinese saying "better learn a man how to catch a fish than give him fich for every meal" (or something like that ) we have STATS

Brandenburg at war with Annam and Austria with China? WTF!?!

 

[ForzaA]

..and where is our great GM?

 

[ForzaA]

Inflation at an all time high, technology far behind the Ottoman Empire..

but Flandern seems to be doing somewhat better finally
Income has been boosted significantly, religious issues have been largely sorted out. Some Flandrian colonies were established.

Flandern is certainly not a great power, but the troubled times of 1540-1560 may now finally, perhaps, be forgotten.

---
EDIT: as a side-note, I hope to be able to continue, but am not sure, as I have to boss around first years students EARLY on tuesdats {so early, in fact, that I am now back already, and almost falling asleep.... I need more coffee :wacko: }

 

[ForzaA]

How early can it be when we talk of students?

getting up at 6.15am - that is VERY early (for me anyway )

 

[ForzaA]

Tonio said it could be done.

Gametechnically, there's nothing against it, but there's a significant group of lobbyists opposed to edits

 

[ForzaA]

treaty is not accepted by the german alliance. war will continue...

what treaty isn't?

 

[ForzaA]

are we playing with the 2nd feb patch tomorrow ? I haven't installed it yet, so let me know if i should

I see no reason not to
I guess we will be.

 

[ForzaA]

Alas, not enough perms showing up (and not enough subs available)

oh well, atleast I can get enough sleep then


EDIT: as to my hosting, connection is being upgraded from 2240/416 Kbit/s to 3200/768 Kbit/s .. not the fastest, but eh, I hosted ANZAC with even less than that

 

[ForzaA]

While I agree that we really should be playing, I do not agree with the "we should play no matter how few show up". I do have better ways to spend my time than a "forced game"..

 

[ForzaA]

I think you know my sentiments, but I'll recap

I have to get up early on tuesdays (early for a student anyway) and I don't really feel like losing sleep over a game that doesn't really add anything- this game is much like all the rest of the games, really. And I certainly don't like wasting half my evening waiting for players to show up, waiting for subs etc. or playing with a VERY marginal group.

However, I signed up for the game, so I play until the decision is made that I'm not needed anymore (ie. someone else is willing and able to replace me, or Flandern is declared unneccesary), or the game itself is cancelled.

 

[ForzaA]

...not again..

 

[ForzaA]

Deals to be edited please:

Rio Grande and Matagorda to Venice, Spain receives 80 ducats.
Porto and Algarve to Spain, Spain gives 3 italian provinses in return.

ehm.. I only agreed to that FIRST deal.


---
ALSO: Spain lacks cores on Andalusia and Gibraltar (because of some deal with Portugal that, as far as I know, never was completed...) and I hope these can be returned

 

[ForzaA]

I will return them unless someone objects. Did Spain receive any core from Portugal in that deal?

none, as far as *I* can see.

I will also edit some Chinese culture thing.. What was it?

from the latest beta patch: "Changed the tag for Han culture to "chihan" to not confusing it internally with the tag for the country Hannover."
our game started with the old beta (and the scenario possibly was even older) so it still has "han" for the chinese culture, which should thus be chihan.

 

[ForzaA]

Well how long do you need to think about it?

It's a good deal.

is it? "3 Italian provinces" - you haven't even said WHICH Italian provinces (and negotiations would be better of on ICQ )

I need a specific offer if I'm to make a decision.

 

[ForzaA]

I was in favour before and i am still now..

same

 

[ForzaA]

The Doge of Venice and the King of Spain has signed an agreement​

The south italian provinses of Napoli, Apulia and Marche are returned to Venice, cores included, in exchange of the Iberian provinses of Oporto and Algarve. As payment for infrastructure, The Doge will finance the Spanish empire with 750 ducats.

I the new world Spain offers Rio Grande and Matagorda to The Doge, who in return finances the Spanish Empire with an additional 80 ducats.

Signed

The Doge of Venice King of Spain

you know, usually it is left to the players themselves to sign