Confessing Their Apostasies (A Mildly Interactive AAR)

[HistoryDude]

The Carolingians were once a great house. Their glory began with Charles Martel, who was merely a “Mayor of the Palace” - although he did de facto rule over the Franks. He was faced with a Muslim invasion, although some modern historians consider it more of a raid. The Muslims would conquer much of Aquitaine, and its duke requested aid, although he had previously revolted against the Franks.

Charles accepted this request for aid. He met the Muslims at Tours, and their commander was killed. Without a commander, the Muslim raiding force quickly withdrew. For this feat, Charles was known as “Martel” - the Hammer.

His heirs were Peppin and Carloman. They quickly managed to assert effective control over Francia. Carloman ruled Austrasia, Alemannia, and Thuringia (the eastern portions of the Frankish realm), whereas Peppin ruled Neustria, Burgundy, and Provence (the western portions of Francia). They would install Childeric III as a puppet king of the Franks, although they retained all of the actual power.

Carloman would retire into religious life in 747 AD. Peppin would thus effectively rule over the entire Frankish realm. He would suppress a revolt by his half-brother. In 751 AD, he gave up all pretence of non-monarchical rule, as he forced Childeric into a monastery.

Peppin’s sons would divide the realm, but convenient deaths would lead to the ascension of Charles to the position of King of all Francia. Charles would then defeat the Saxons, Muslims, and Lombards alike. These deeds earned him the title “Magnus” - the Great.

The man known as Charlemagne also gave land to the Pope to rule, who crowned him as Western Roman Emperor in 800 AD.

Ultimately, though, Charlemagne was a mortal man, and he would perish. His son, Louis the Pious, would inherit. Unfortunately, Louis would be the last ruler of a united Empire. His sons would fight over the crown.

In the end, the Treaty of Verdun would divide the realm into 3 parts. To make matters worse, when the eldest son, Lothaire, died, he split his realm into 3 parts - Italy, Lotharingia, and Arles (Burgundy).

In time, all of the Carolingians would lose their authority. Lotharingia was the first realm to be destroyed, and that kingdom was heavily fought over by East and West Francia. By 1066 AD, the Carolingians had been reduced to a single county in the former lands of West Francia, now known as France.

Meanwhile, the King of East Francia (known as Germany by that point), Otto, would conquer Italy in the 900s AD and have himself crowned as Holy Roman Emperor.

Count Herbert of Vermandois, however, dreamed of restoring Carolingian glory. His ambitions would lead to countless wars and intrigues, and that is the true history of the restored Carolingians and their descendants.

 

[HistoryDude]

“The rebirth of the Carolingians took centuries. Many historians consider 1066 to be a year that is primarily interesting for the Wars Over England. If France in this time is talked about at all, it is for the Norman Invasion. Still, plots were stirring in the tiny French County of Vermandois.

Vermandois was ruled by the last of the Carolingians. Count Herbert had sworn allegiance to the French King, who was a Capet, but he dreamed of lost glory. Once, the Carolingians had ruled over almost the entirety of Central Europe and large parts of Western Europe. Herbert imagined a world in which that glory was renewed.

Still, for all of his faults, the Count of Vermandois knew of the reality of his position. A few of his ancestors had imagined that lands would just fall into their grasp. Herbert knew that belief to be folly. He knew that a man must work toward glory - glory rarely fell into the laps of men. He also knew that patience was key.

He learned to be patient. He would serve, and the Capets would believe him and his dynasty content. The Holy Roman Emperors would also believe him content. No one would suspect him of contemplating lost glories. He would be beneath suspicion.

After all, no one would oppose him if they didn’t know his goals. No one could oppose him without knowing his goals. He would pretend to be someone who he was not, and he would scheme. His dynasty had fallen due to pride. They had let power slip from their grasp, and, in the long run, that had destroyed them.

Many believe that the early Carolingians trusted no one with their plans, but that was blatantly untrue. The Carolingians - or, at least, the early ones, those that had reigned before the Restoration - firmly believed that trusting no one was utter folly. After all, if no one knew your plans, how were they supposed to be carried out?

No, the early Carolingians trusted a select few men in their small County, and no one outside of it. They were perfectly aware that no man ruled alone.” - Introduction to The Prelude to Restoration: A Tale of the Carolingians

 

[HistoryDude]

The hiatus is over!

“I wish to be a warrior. Men will follow a warrior far more than they will follow an administrator. A man who refuses to lead his men in the field is a coward. My ancestors led from the front of their armies, and I will follow in their footsteps. To do so will inspire loyalty toward me, and, hopefully, toward my dynasty.

Still, there are many ways to fight. Men often like to compete at tournaments, hoping that they will triumph and win fame. Fools. All of those men are fools! Real war is nothing like a tournament. Tournament competitors are constrained by honor, at least in theory. They are expected to be chivalrous.

That’s fine, if those men want glory. But glory is fleeting. Glory won at a tournament will never stand the test of time. Chivalry! What a joke. Honor in a war is a lie. Many men attempt to be honorable in real war. They attempt to be chivalrous. Because of that, they die. Real wars have no honor. It’s kill or be killed. There is no middle ground except the fleeting respite of peace. And peace is fleeting. It never lasts, and it cannot last in this fallen world. Only a fool believes in a lasting period of peace. True peace will never be achieved, and the closest thing to it is a single man having dominion of the planet.

No, wars were won by strategy! They were won by cunning plans. If I wish to win wars, then I must master that art.” - the Diary of Herbert of Vermandois

 

[HistoryDude]

“Unfortunately, I am not a great ruler. My family has fallen far since the days of our great ancestor Carolus Magnus. I have little - in gold or in arms. I am uncertain of victory in a war against even the weakest of my fellow vassals, let alone the usurper dynasty of the Capets. I cannot afford to antagonize them, no matter how much I would like to.

My might needs to be expanded. I cannot buy more soldiers with money without being left destitute, so I can’t hire mercenaries. I need a larger army, but I have no money. I will need to be patient, hoping that my subjects pay enough taxes to generate a suitable amount of wealth for my purposes. That means that I cannot afford to waste gold on useless displays like feasts and hunts - I need to save it for my wars and my glory.

As I wait for my money, I can set about preparing for war in other ways. I am not a patient man by nature, but I have ways to occupy my time - no man ever became a master tactician by doing nothing, after all.

Even so, I alone will not be enough to renew my family’s glory. I shall rely on my family members to aid my quest, even if they don’t have the highest opinions of me. They, like me, understand that the dynasty takes precedence over such things as personal feelings or grudges. That is why I have entrusted the governance of my realm to them.

The most warlike of my relatives, Arnoul of Chiny, is who I have entrusted command of my army to. I shall order him to train more commanders for my army - men who will understand strategy and not simply attack their enemies without a plan. Wars are not won by the amount of soldiers who fight in them but by how well those soldiers fight. My relative shall ensure that my men are reliable in a battle, and I shall determine their loyalty.” - The Diary of Herbert of Vermandois






I promised a resurrection after I was done with my V2 AAR. I'm done with my V2 AAR. We're back!

 

[HistoryDude]

“I need to start small. I cannot outright attack the King of France to claim his throne - that would be far too brazen. I must start much smaller - fighting to claim the lands of my fellow counts, and even that will not be easy. My esteemed dynasty has fallen far from its zenith.

I will start with my neighbor, Valois. They have a mightier force to command than I do, but there are ways to equalize that deficit. While the skill of my knights will not be enough to turn the tide, there is something that will easily bring them to heel. Mercenaries. They will not be loyal to me, and they might not fight well, but that won’t matter. All mercenaries are loyal to money - to gold, and there will be more than enough of them to overcome any… shortcomings. As long as they’re paid, they will charge at my enemies like lambs to the slaughter.

Unfortunately, discussion with my brother, Arnoul, revealed a problem with this plan. Mercenaries could make up for our military weakness… if we could afford any. Sadly, our house has fallen to depths that even I had not perceived. We were almost out of money and barely even had enough to pay a knight to serve us, let alone to pay an army. I will need to find ways to earn more gold.

I had a friend in my fellow count,Renaud of Clermont, and I knew that he was likely to send aid of some kind in any wars I fought in. That would prove useful, but I had two worries about his help. First, Renaud befriended me with an ulterior motive, and I still don’t know what that motive was. I cannot rely on his aid if I do not know what he truly desires of me. Secondly, and far more importantly, Count Renaud was my friend - my personal friend. I did not wish to bring our friendship into the political realm - it was private, and I worried about potential consequences should it be brought into the public sphere. Down that path lay only sorrow.

No, my gold couldn’t come from my dear friend, no matter how much I wished otherwise. I would have to find other means of funding. My first thought was asking the King of France, but the very idea of bowing to the Capet usurpers made my blood burn - I would rather die. That was not an option. I could also seek alliances within the realm, but that path would embroil me into the conflicts of the great duchies, and all that would do was remind me of everything that I could not have. No, I would not touch alliances within France until I had achieved a dukedom.

That left only my third option - the Catholic Church. I have never been a pious man, and I know all too well of the priesthood’s sins. My court chaplain’s incompetence has made that much clear. I’m not even certain that my court priest understands the scriptures, but I know all too well what happens when the Church is denied their influence. Even still, a closer relationship with the institution would benefit me, as I could simply ask the Pope for gold. I needed a closer relationship with him if he was to answer such a request, but that was easy to achieve.

All I had to do was sell my daughter to an archbishop that had the Pope’s ear.” - The Diary of Herbert of Vermandois

 

[HistoryDude]

“Herbert walked to the feast. He didn’t like public events, but he had little choice but to attend. King Philippe of France had invited all of his vassals, and not attending would be seen as disrespectful. It would anger his liege, and that was the last thing that Herbert wanted. The Capetian suspected that he was scheming enough as it was - he was a Carolingian, and the usurper thought that he might want to restore his family’s throne. He was right, of course, but Herbert was not a fool. He would never outright rebel against the crown.

Of course, that still left silent rebellions, and Herbert had initially planned to skip the event as a show of defiance. It was his brother, Eudes, who had talked him out of this reckless plan. He had observed that any silent rebellion would still be noticed, and Philippe might use that as an excuse to revoke his title and destroy the last remnant of Carolingian power.
His brother had also noted the upside of attending feasts with his fellow vassals. He had observed that they tended to be social events, and he might well find long term allies for the Carolingian cause. It was this, more than anything else, that convinced the count to go. The Carolingians needed allies if they were ever to regain their rightful crown. Herbert could swallow his pride for his dynasty’s sake.

The feast itself was very mundane. Hare and veal were served first, followed by the pomegranate seeds. Herbert ate slowly, focusing on the various conversations that his fellow vassals were having. While no one spoke a word against the king outright, a few spoke of perceived tyranny and suggested that something be done about it. Herbert paid these impatient souls no mind - participating in a scheme against the king now would require answering to someone else, and Herbert had no desire to swap one overlord for another.

Instead, Herbert focused on speaking with his fellow independent counts - Renaud of Clermont and Ralph of Valois. Ralph proved uninterested in speaking to him, so Herbert focused on discussing politics with Renaud.

“It seems like there is some discontent with our royal majesty,” Herbert said. “I imagine that we will have a revolt on our hands soon enough. Do you think that it will engulf the entire realm?”

“Of course not,” Renaud replied. “The rebels lack support among the wider nobility of France. Would you support someone who threatened to bring the wrath of the crown down upon your head? No, this rebellion will peter out if it ever gets started.”

Herbert mentally filed away that information. Renaud would never support an outright rebellion, but it wasn’t like he was planning on one. The man seemed reasonable enough. “I would support someone who I agreed with. Surely you would do the same? Regardless, I agree - an immediate rebellion will find little support in these halls. I’m more concerned about the Norman scheme to bring England under their rule. That seems like it could be… destabilizing.”

Renaud raised an eyebrow. “If I agreed with a man who was about to commit treason, I would attempt a peaceful resolution first. If the king still proved intransigent, then I would resort to more extreme measures to enforce God’s justice.”

“And what’s your opinion of William’s daring scheme, then?”

“The illegitimate Norman is ambitious, but he has bitten off more than he can chew. I wouldn’t worry about the consequences of his success. He won’t succeed.”

They talked about politics long into the night, and they agreed to keep in touch. Herbert left the feast feeling as though he had an ally in France. Renaud seemed like a reliable man, and his aid could prove vital if anything extreme happened.” - The Strange Friendship of Renaud of Clermont and Herbert of Vermandois


A.N: Trying my hand at a narrative set in medieval France here.

Go and vote in the 2023 Q1 ACAs! This AAR is not eligible, but there have been plenty of good AARs throughout the forums... Also, comments are always appreciated!

 

[HistoryDude]

“‘To Valois,

Usurper and servant of usurpers! Your county is the property of my dynasty by right, and I will be reclaiming it. You may attempt your futile resistance, but no aid is coming from your masters. I will retake my rightful land.

Vermandois’

‘To the most vile Count Herbert of Vermandois,

Tales of your misdeeds and unjust aggression are told from Ireland to Cathay. I will defend the lands that my rightful king - by the decision of the Frankish nobles - has entrusted to me. To do otherwise would be a betrayal. Your armies will break, and God’s will shall be done.

I am no usurper, and I have aided in no usurpations. You have no right granted by the Almighty, and I have no obligations to you. It is you who are attempting a usurpation, and I who am simply defending the rightful order. I am bound to the Kings of France by ties of blood and oaths. I shall not betray them.

The Almighty shall see the justice of my cause and grant me victory, even if my liege is distracted. I shall give you one chance - and only one chance - to surrender.

Count Ralph of Valois’

‘To Valois,

Do you truly believe that you can triumph? I have every advantage in this conflict - I have more money than you, and I have a mighty army. Your resistance is futile. I shall never surrender to the likes of you.

If you must appeal to the Almighty, you may. I highly doubt that he will answer, of course, but, if it comforts you, you may plead for mercy before you are dethroned. The Almighty cares not for the whims of mere mortals. Even if he did, one would think that he would support those who support his Church - his bride on Earth - and I believe that is me.

And you are a servant of usurpers. Hugh Capet was a usurper… of my family, and his descendants still rule over this kingdom for the moment. I cannot attack him, but I can attack you. You’re welcome to share this information, by the way, but no one will ever believe you.

Vermandois’

‘To the arrogant Count Herbert of Vermandois,

Your cynicism merely proves how hopeless your cause is. The Almighty shall aid the side with the most faith in him and the most just cause, which is me. All I must do is wait for my armies to crush yours, and then the world shall see the justness of my cause.

You did not take my offer of mercy, and you shall be crushed by my might upon the battlefield. I do not believe that we have any more to talk about.

Count Ralph of Valois’

‘To Valois,

I prefer to think of it as realism, but the specifics of my faith are irrelevant. Your conclusion is correct - there is nothing more to cover. It is on the battlefield where our fates shall be decided. I wonder if I will see you there… or if you are too much of a coward to fight on the front lines.

Vermandois’

‘To the cynical Count Herbert of Vermandois,

You are a far greater coward than I am. We shall meet on the battlefield, but you shall lose and fail on your mad quest. This is inevitable, regardless of how our initial confrontation ends.

I shall meet you again on the battlefield…

Count Ralph of Valois’”

 

[HistoryDude]

“The Attack on Valois was well-planned. For all of his flaws, Count Herbert was not an idiot - he knew how to time his attacks. His first move came after he had assured either the aid or the neutrality of his immediate neighbor in Clermont, and no one else was in any position to intervene. Count Herbert waited until all of the duchies of the West Francian kingdom were distracted before he struck.

The greatest distraction was the War of the French Succession. The great Count attacked immediately after the Capets began squabbling amongst themselves. The King of France was at war with his relative, the Duke of Burgundy, and all of the dukes were preoccupied by that conflict. It wasn’t exactly something a major landowner in the realm could afford to ignore.

None of the counts involved in the First Carolingian Reclamation were major landholders in the realm. None of them commanded a lot of influence, despite what would happen later. In the late 11th century AD, there was little reason to believe that the Carolingians were anything other than a dead dynasty. Most of the crowned heads of Europe believed that their time had come and gone. Very few saw Count Herbert as relevant to the politics of the continent, and, for the most part, they were right. The resurgence of the Carolingians required skillful political and diplomatic maneuvering by the dynasty, but it also relied on luck a lot. The truest conquerors never relied on luck at all, only on skill. Very few of them existed at all - luck often decided who was relevant and who was ignored. It also often decided who was remembered and who was forgotten. Even so, enough skill could override luck… and the Carolingians weren’t free from that tendency, either. I wouldn’t dream of excluding the most famous dynasty in history from a book on conquerors.” - Conquerors of the World: A Guide to the Greatest Men on Earth

 

[HistoryDude]

“Although Herbert of Vermandois spent most of the feast talking to Renaud of Clermont, he did attempt to forge further diplomatic ties there. He liked Renaud, but he was also aware of how limited his new friend’s influence was. While he would still count the night as a success for his new friendship alone, he still wanted to do more.

Luck was on his side that night, it seemed. After a few hours, a man approached the two counts, and Herbert recognized him as a Capet. This alone made him weary, and his suspicions were not aided by the fact that the man approached him and Renaud specifically. Herbert was tempted to switch seats right then, but Renaud changed his mind, reasoning that a man of such influence wouldn’t approach two lowly counts without a reason. This logic convinced the Count of Vermandois, who desperately wanted to destabilize the reigning Capet regime.

The Capet attempted to begin the conversation with small talk, but neither count wanted to bother with such trivialities. In unison, they told him to get to the point, and he conceded.

His first words were shocking. 'My father is not a fit monarch of this realm. He allowed Duke William’s mad scheme to jeopardize our relations with our neighbor across the Channel, and I doubt that he cares much for the realm’s peace. He must be deposed for the good of all of the Frankish people.'

Count Herbert was, naturally, skeptical. 'King Philippe is weak, sure, but I don’t see why we should care. After all, we are his vassals, and we stand to benefit from his weakness.'

'Besides,' Count Renaud chimed in. 'Who would replace him? You? Will not your Burgundian lands tempt you to a war with His Imperial Majesty to our east? Why should our men die for your own personal ambitions?'

The Capet smiled. 'Yes, but I will put the well-being of the realm in front of my personal desires. Even if I didn’t, my enthronement would benefit you two personally. There’s bound to be some dukes who will side with my father… and I will be obliged to punish them. If either of you supports me, I might give you their titles and make them serve you…'

Count Herbert could admit that the offer was very, very tempting. Perhaps he would have even accepted it in another life, but one thing stayed his hand. 'What happens if we lose? Each of us is a mere count, and rebellion would be an acceptable justification to strip us of even that dignity. I will not end my family’s legacy on the off-chance that an internal divide within their usurpers could benefit me. No.'

Count Renaud nodded in agreement.

That should’ve been the end of the matter, but the Capetian Duke was relentless. He begged them to reconsider and refused to leave. Neither count said anything about it once he finally shut up. If he wanted to look suspicious, they weren’t going to stop him.

Naturally, the king took notice. He sent a page to order his son to return to the head of the table, but the Duke of Burgundy refused. This angered the king enough that he sent a small band of knights to bring the man to the king by force. A short fight resulted, but the Duke was no match for a group of knights, so he had to move. A rebellion was averted but only for the moment.

Neither count did anything to aid their unwanted visitor, but they also refused to tell the knights of the duke’s plans. Instead, they continued talking to each other about their personal interests as if nothing was happening right next to them.” - The Strange Friendship of Renaud of Clermont and Herbert of Vermandois

 

[HistoryDude]

“After the feast, the two counts continued to communicate by using letters. They spoke of the realm’s problems and discussed a variety of topics - from politics to simpler things like food, love, and torture techniques. Neither count asked about the personal ambitions of the other. Some things were best kept secret.

These letters made Count Herbert feel like a close friend to his neighbor, so, when he heard about how a mayor within his county was spewing insults about Count Renaud, his reaction was predictable. At first, he wanted to execute the mayor, but his wife counseled him against this action. She noted that such an act could harm his reputation among the few vassals that he had. Worse, it could also harm his reputation among the French nobility as a whole. Count Herbert’s anger quickly cooled, but he still despised the insult to his friend.
He decided that this mayor must have heard untrue rumors. It was his duty as a friend to disprove these rumors… so he wrote back to the mayor. The letter was not as polite as it could have been, but then, the Count of Vermandois was still pissed about the slandering of his friend - he wasn’t obligated to be polite.

A response quickly came, inviting Count Herbert to visit the mayor’s city in person to discuss… “the possible spreading of lies”. While Count Herbert was initially worried by this invitation, believing that the mayor had ulterior motives such as assassinating his liege, he agreed to go anyway. He still made absolutely certain that he was safe by bringing guards - it also paid to be prepared for the worst.

The conversation was very productive. The mayor told Count Herbert who had initially implied that Count Renaud was untrustworthy and even gave the man to the Count for judgement. Count Herbert demanded to know why the mayor had believed these rumors, and the man admitted that he believed that the two counts were enemies, being neighboring counts and knowing of Count Herbert’s ambition to return the Karlings to glory.

Count Herbert quickly impressed upon the mayor the need to keep his plans secret and privately vowed to increase secrecy. It would not do for many people to know his plans - he was well aware of how easy it was to gain information from someone.

With the issue resolved, Count Herbert left the city in good spirits with his new prisoner. He sent another letter to Count Renaud shortly thereafter, telling him of the incident and even offering to send the slanderer to the Count of Clermont for punishment. Count Renaud was flattered by Count Herbert’s defense of him, and the incident caused the two men to become closer.

The man who had slandered Count Renaud was sent to Clermont, where Count Renaud decided against killing him. Instead, he made the man search for people who made up rumors (especially rumors about him) and report them to him… and made him shovel cow manure until he learned not to insult his betters. Count Herbert thought that punishment was a tad sadistic, but he said nothing. Everyone had their quirks - in the privacy of his own mind, he acknowledged that he might be a little proud - and a little overprotective.” - The Strange Friendship of Renaud of Clermont and Herbert of Vermandois





Oh, right. This is mildly interactive, and that means that readAARs can influence the narrative. You represent general opinion of the Karling family, and the Counts reserve the right to ignore your advice. That being said, the vote is about what Count Herbert should do after the Valois War. It is open until June 4, 2023. The options are:
A. Who cares about the Count's personal friendships? Attack Clermont! (Betrayal Arc... or perhaps a friendship against all odds arc)
B. We'll never reclaim our former glory by attacking mere counties. Attack Flanders you coward! (Risk Arc - either the beginnings of a Glory Arc or an Icarus Arc)
C. I'm pretty sure we've already technically broken the feudal contract. Maybe keeping a low profile is a good idea? (Housekeeping Arc)

 

[HistoryDude]

"The incident with the mayor made the friendship between the two counts closer, and they continued to exchange letters, but nothing truly significant happened for a couple of months. The King of France held no feasts, and there was no conflict between nobles. It was a peaceful time, and Count Herbert despised it - both because of how little was happening and how banal it made his correspondence with his friend.

It was not long before they turned to discussing topics unrelated to current events - specifically, philosophy. It was Count Herbert who first broached the topic, asking concerning religious questions. He questioned the benevolence of a deity that allowed his family to be cast from so many thrones. Count Renaud’s response was shocking - he agreed with some of the Karling’s doubts. He refused to comment on the Capetian Usurpation, but he noted many other signs of a cruel deity - the constant warfare between Christian realms and the success of the Muslims in seizing control over such a large empire.

They continued discussing the topic for a long while and eventually decided that no mortal could know the mind of God, so his requests should not matter on the material plane. Count Renaud even backed up this decision with scriptural passages, which Count Herbert had to refrain from sending to the Pope as revenge for taking his daughter without giving anything back (and he only succeeded in doing that by reminding himself that the guardianship situation was temporary and would get him into the good graces of the Church).

It was with this in mind that Count Herbert finally opened up about his plans to regain his family’s lost glory to his friend. He promised not to attack his friend militarily if Count Renaud didn’t oppose him with an army and wrote of his desire to attack Valois and bring that county under his control.

Count Renaud was surprisingly receptive to this plan and mentioned nothing about how it was technically illegal. He did, however, request to meet in person, reasoning that their correspondence could be intercepted by anyone. He noted that the King of France getting his hands on the letters would be a disaster for both parties that could easily end in execution.

Count Herbert’s initial instinct was to accept the offer of a meeting immediately and not think on it further, but his brother, Eudes, had managed to get his hands on the letter and told him that he might want to include the entire family in decisions that affected all of them, lest… the Karlings change their mind about acknowledging him as their head.

Count Herbert got the message - the threat, really - loud and clear. Making impulsive decisions on behalf of his county might have… unfortunate consequences. For a brief moment, he considered ignoring his brother anyway since he was the head of the family, but his common sense prevailed - if his brother was being so flagrant in his threat, then he definitely thought that he could defeat his liege. Count Herbert worried about being killed - or, worse, made into a puppet. That was why he called the Karlings to a meeting in Saint Quentin to discuss his relations with the Count of Clermont.” - The Strange Friendship of Renaud of Clermont and Herbert of Vermandois






Those letters might come up again later. The logic is that Herbert's Arrogant and Renaud's Sadistic.

Also, the vote is still open (until next Sunday). We only have one vote so far, so Option C is currently winning. A reminder that the options were:
A. Who cares about the Count's personal friendships? Attack Clermont! (Betrayal Arc... or perhaps a friendship against all odds arc)
B. We'll never reclaim our former glory by attacking mere counties. Attack Flanders you coward! (Risk Arc - either the beginnings of a Glory Arc or an Icarus Arc)
C. I'm pretty sure we've already technically broken the feudal contract. Maybe keeping a low profile is a good idea? (Housekeeping Arc)

 

[HistoryDude]

“The meeting went wrong almost immediately. The Karlings were hardly a united clan, and they all had different ideas about the future of their dynasty. While all Karlings wanted a renaissance of power, they differed on how this might be achieved. Count Herbert, obviously, favored a combination of diplomacy and warfare that was subtle and would not draw a great amount of attention to their actions. Eudes heavily disagreed - he thought that the Count’s plan would be far too slow. Instead, he advocated for a policy of brazen and risky attacks on other counties and even duchies to establish a powerbase.
The two men argued over this for hours, each reiterating their points in increasingly repetitive ways. Tempers ran high, and both got increasingly angry. Count Herbert channeled his anger by insulting his sibling, which did nothing to help. Eudes’s anger was far more physical, and he began breaking things - the table, the chairs, and a few of the pieces of art that decorated their hall in Saint Quentin.

It was at that point that everybody else simply left the hall. Neither man even noticed for some time, as both were far too caught up in their useless argument, which had moved on to increasingly absurd personal attacks and threats by now (Eudes threatened to have his namesake kill Herbert, and Count Herbert threatened to exile his brother).

In the end, both stormed out of the room, pissed at one another and in a mood to… eliminate the threat to their authority.

The tensions that emerged from that meeting would echo down the ages, at least according to legend. The issue, of course, is that it isn’t even so much as mentioned in any contemporary texts - Eudes said nothing about it publicly, and Count Herbert doesn’t mention it in any of his letters, not even the ones to Count Renaud.

Of course, something akin to this meeting might very well have occurred. Count Herbert’s letters to Count Renaud do mention a meeting among the Karlings around this time period, but there is no mention of extreme tensions or of broken objects. Furthermore, the end result seems to have been much more mundane and boring than the legend has it - apparently, an agreement was reached that Count Herbert could meet with his friend and discuss alliances.

No one knows exactly how the rumor began, either, which only adds to the mystery - and to the dissonance. The earliest attestations are spread out across the continent and from a couple decades after the great Carolingians had reclaimed their glory. They were from Italy and Germany, although, strangely enough, they weren’t from France itself. Despite this, random nobles would occasionally claim descent from Eudes and make plays for the throne based on the legend… so it probably existed orally before our earliest written sources.” - Of Historical Legends And Their Influence



The vote is still going on! It ends next Sunday. As a reminder, the options were:
A. Who cares about the Count's personal friendships? Attack Clermont! (Betrayal Arc... or perhaps a friendship against all odds arc)
B. We'll never reclaim our former glory by attacking mere counties. Attack Flanders you coward! (Risk Arc - either the beginnings of a Glory Arc or an Icarus Arc)
C. I'm pretty sure we've already technically broken the feudal contract. Maybe keeping a low profile is a good idea? (Housekeeping Arc)

And Option C is currently winning, with one vote.

 

[HistoryDude]

“When Count Herbert finally reached Renaud’s abode, it was night. The sun had long since set, but a full moon illuminated the sky, which allowed him to find the place easily. Unfortunately, the time meant that there was nobody to greet him… and no one to welcome him in. Count Herbert was a proud man, but even he would not enter a noble’s home without permission. He knocked on the door, but it took a while for someone to answer the door. In the meantime, the count waited outside and watched the stars… considering how glorious it would be when his dynasty could name them.

Count Renaud answered the door personally, eager to greet his friend. They walked together into the house and made small talk, but neither was very focused on the conversation. Both men understood that the important talk would happen in the morning when they were both completely awake.

His friend led Count Herbert to a small bedroom, and the Karling crashed as soon as his head hit the carpet - before he even looked at the residence where he would be staying. His dreams at night matched his fantasies during the day - he dreamt of a renewal of his dynasty’s glory. At night, the details of that glory crystalized into a clearer vision, but the path toward that potential future remained a mystery. When he awoke, he remembered most of his dreams, but the knowledge quickly fled from his mind as the day wore on. Silently, he resolved to write down what his mind generated at night to preserve it after this visit was over.

Now, however, he had more pressing concerns - his meeting with his friend and the raw potential of a formal alliance lay before him. Only a fool would refuse to grasp it.

The meeting occurred over a small breakfast of porridge and beer. At first, the two men ate in silence, but Count Renaud quickly changed that. ‘So… you wished to speak of…’ He briefly paused, as if searching for the right words to say. ‘Formalizing our friendship?’

Count Herbert nodded. ‘Indeed. I thought that we could make our friendship a matter of official policy by forming an alliance between our counties. We would agree to aid each other in war and in peace, ensuring that neither of our houses would fall into a premature ruin.’

Count Renaud leaned forward. ‘Do you want an alliance between our counties or an alliance between our houses, my friend?’

‘Does it matter?’

‘Of course it does. Those are two very different things - one option is far broader than the other. If we ally our houses, then our destinies will be bound together. We will become members of one greater house that will have multiple branches to contribute to its glory. Opposing us will become far more difficult.’

Count Herbert admitted that sounded pretty tempting, but he was also suspicious. How did his friend benefit from this arrangement? He could see how he benefited easily enough - more aid for his pursuit of his dynasty’s lost glory - but what did Count Renaud get out of this? They were friends, sure, but that was a personal thing, not a dynastic one.

On the surface, this proposal seemed designed to benefit him, but that meant little. There was always a catch. Some things were too good to be true. He frowned, and he finally summed up his thoughts in a single question: ‘what do you get out of this?’

Count Renaud raised an eyebrow. ‘Ah, my friend, ever the cynic. I cannot deny that this deal will somewhat benefit me as well. I am but a small count whose dynasty has never known glory. This will grant me something that I’ve never truly known - prestige. Everybody remembers how your ancestors once united much of the old Roman Empire, and their memories are long. The mere association will make me more notable.’

Count Herbert blinked. That reasoning made sense, except there was still one minor problem… ‘Why do you want notoriety? The ignored counts can get away with far more than the big landholders in this kingdom. Our noble overlord sees the bigger landowners as more threatening to his authority.’

Count Renaud smiled. ‘You’re correct, of course, but that also means that we have no leverage.’

Count Herbert looked at him doubtfully, and the Count of Clermont quickly changed his phrasing. ‘Okay, so you might have leverage from your ancestry, but I don’t. Gaining notoriety will give me a voice in the wider affairs of this realm. I’m tired of being ignored by my so-called betters.’ He snorted. ‘As if they’re any better than me. They would tear apart this realm for so many petty reasons - pure spite, familial issues, and even vague and far-fetched chances at glory abroad.’

Count Herbert blinked - that was a very comprehensive list, but it contained a single glaring exception. ‘Not ambition?’

‘I said petty reasons. Ambitious men would tear the realm apart, but at least they would have a good reason to do so - the advancement of their dynasty. Ambition is what keeps this world interesting, my friend - never forget that. Besides, if I hated ambition, I hardly would have befriended you, would I?’

‘Perhaps not. Anyway, how shall we unite our houses, then? Marriage? Between who?’

Count Renaud smiled, which Count Herbert took as an affirmation of his theory. ‘Indeed. Marriage is a tie that binds. Sadly, I have no unmarried sons, and I lack daughters - but my household is far bigger than my immediate relatives. I have long found that knights are more loyal if you give them something… especially a name. I assume that you do have female relatives? If not… we might have a problem.’

Count Herbert simply sighed. This might be a long day.” - The Strange Friendship of Renaud of Clermont and Herbert of Vermandois





The vote is still going on! It ends this Sunday. As a reminder, the options were:
A. Who cares about the Count's personal friendships? Attack Clermont! (Betrayal Arc... or perhaps a friendship against all odds arc)
B. We'll never reclaim our former glory by attacking mere counties. Attack Flanders you coward! (Risk Arc - either the beginnings of a Glory Arc or an Icarus Arc)
C. I'm pretty sure we've already technically broken the feudal contract. Maybe keeping a low profile is a good idea? (Housekeeping Arc)

And Option C is currently winning, with one vote.

Thanks for the love @Midnite Duke, by the way.

 

[HistoryDude]

“The discussion went on for hours, but the end result was simple. Count Herbert’s sister, Adelaide, was to be married to one of the knights employed by Count Renaud to cement an alliance between their two realms. The terms of this alliance were extraordinarily strange, though, because it was unofficial. Instead of direct military aid in wars, the two counts would aid each other in far more subtle ways - they would offer each other gold or even knights instead.

Whenever this deal is referenced in their private letters, the implication was that it wasn’t a formal alliance because both counts were trying to avoid formal dynastic obligations. Their alliance was, after all, based on personal friendship, which was not something that was generally inherited.

When Count Herbert attempted to justify the deal to the rest of the Karlings, this was the justification that he used. He also noted that it allowed possible violent acquisition of the County of Clermont after his death… but it also increased the chances that the Counts of Clermont would peacefully submit to a Karling duchy ‘when such a thing came to pass’.

Unfortunately, all of this information was transmitted really quickly, which meant that it wasn’t really all that intelligible. Eudes thus forced Count Herbert to go to sleep and suggested that they have a family meeting in the morning instead. The Count agreed and was relieved.

That meeting was interesting. Accounts differ, of course, but most agree that there was no opposition to this deal. It is the reasoning of the other Karlings that differ between accounts - some idealistic sources insist that they saw no issue with basing political deals on personal relations, but the more pessimistic - and therefore realistic - sources note that there were probably ulterior motives involved. What those ulterior motives were is different in each account - some insist that the Karlings dreamed of a mostly peaceful reclamation of their old throne, but most are, naturally, more cynical. They note that gold - or, more specifically, the mercenaries that gold could buy - could easily turn the tide of wars. This interpretation was certainly supported by the events that followed…

News of the deal spread immediately. The nobles of the Kingdom of France had a thousand other concerns, but the Karlings were still being watched due to their past glory. Some nobles thought that watching the dynasty could prove their loyalty to the Capetians and grant them greater influence. The deal thus quickly set the entire court of France abuzz with rumors… and plots. Many nobles tried to figure out why such a deal was struck, and a few created a possibly accurate theory - that the alliance was unofficial because the marriage wasn’t an official way to join the two dynasties.

On the other hand, some cared nothing for rumors and instead thought of ways that they could exploit this new development. Count Renaud was not wrong when he said that the Karlings remained a notable dynasty - and that a marriage with them would increase his notoriety and his influence. When he heard of the plots that his deal set in motion, his response is rumored to have been pursing his lips and murmuring ‘good’.” - Politics in Medieval France




Since the vote is still tied between Options B and C, I'm going to extend it until next Sunday.

 

[HistoryDude]

“After their meeting and unofficial alliance, there was a lull in communications between the two counts. Both men were very busy - Count Herbert had to prepare for his war, so he spent his time speaking with his commanders and his knights and training. Count Renaud, for his part, was busy securing his county from outside influence.

In December, though, Count Renaud reassured his friend that these things were merely a temporary distraction by offering a gift. He gave up a magnificent golden stag that had once lived in Clermont. The animal was offered in a letter, and Count Herbert’s initial thought was to refuse such a gift. He was a man of ancient and prestigious ancestry, and he had no need for such an ostentatious gift.

If the stag was from any other man, Count Herbert would’ve rejected it without a second thought, but it was from his friend. That changed the meaning of the gift. If it had been from anyone else, there would’ve been far more politics to consider. He would’ve owed the man who gave him the animal a large favor that could be used against him. However, the stag was from Renaud - a man who Herbert considered a friend and an ally of his realm. What would a single favor even mean to men who were as closely tied as they were?

Count Herbert was a realist, but even he could appreciate a fine gift, especially when he could be certain that it was offered without expectation of reward. Renaud had no need to resort to such measures with Herbert, and both counts knew as much.

Even so, Herbert was grateful enough that he began considering gifts that he could offer in return. Just because something was offered without the expectation of a reward did not mean that one could not be given. He briefly considered offering gold, but he decided that money would be a petty gift - and a thoughtless one. He ultimately chose to postpone his gift until he had won his first war, but he did send a letter of thanks to Renaud. That was the least that he could do.

As for the stag, it would become a famous figure in Vermandois. Songs would be written about its beauty, and it made appearances in dozens of popular literary texts. Herbert initially allowed it to roam the realm as a statement to his subjects of his wealth and power, but he would later retrieve it and bring it back to his castle. There, it became his constant companion and his personal pet. That move was the height of arrogance (and, some say, folly), of course - gold stags were famous for their rarity, but Herbert was never a very humble man.

Later, the stag would become symbolic as well to both commoners and the high nobility. It became a symbol of Karling benevolence and French unity. Future Karling rulers loved to exploit this single moment for propaganda purposes, especially during times of crisis and division. They also used it to reemphasize their ancient alliances, naturally..” - The Consequences of a Friendship

 

[HistoryDude]

“After Count Herbert declared war for Valois, he quickly began writing letters to a variety of figures as preparation for the conflict. He was worried that his opponent would catch him off guard by attacking quickly, and he also wished to finish the war as soon as he could in order to move on to conquering other lands in France. A few of these letters are excerpted below.

‘Dear my esteemed friend, Renaud of Clermont,

I hope this letter finds you well. As you have no doubt heard, I have taken advantage of the Capetian quarrel to declare war on our neighbor. I did not wish to do this, but he proved unable to comprehend how I was his rightful ruler and insisted on remaining loyal to the Capetians. His refusal to swear allegiance left me no choice except to solve things through military force.

I am writing to request your aid in this war, as we have agreed. Your military aid is not required, and gold would be far more valuable. Gold would allow me to hire mercenaries to fight for my rightful crown, although I am not well-versed in the ways of such men. As such, I would also appreciate advice about what mercenaries I should hire and how I can get in touch with them. After all, gold alone is useless - I must be able to use the gold for it to become valuable.

Yours sincerely,
Count Herbert of Vermandois, Head of the Karling House, and the only Rightful Heir of Charlemagne’

‘Dear my dearest friend, Herbert of Vermandois,

Your decision is most wise, as it should prevent any aid from reaching our enemy. Even so, it took me completely by surprise, and I was forced to adapt quickly. I have sent a messenger, escorted by a couple of my knights, to deliver this message and the gold. The protection should ensure that you receive your riches, as our deal said.

I would appreciate it if such measures weren’t required in the future. Please inform me if you make any more major decisions in the future before you act on them, as I need prior notice to fulfill all of the terms of our agreement. Thank you.

I have not been paying special attention to mentions of mercenary companies, but I have heard rumors about a few. My information is thus incomplete and of dubious reliability, but I shall tell you what I can. That is what friends are for, is it not?

Both the Bretons and the Normans seem to have taken up selling their services. The Normans are all united in a single group that has the approval of their duke, so there might be something going on there. Certainly, William can’t be happy that he was beaten to the throne of England by the King of Norway.

The Bretons, by contrast, have no official approval and are divided into multiple organizations. There is a Breton Band and a few others that I don’t know the name of. The benefit to hiring such groups should be obvious - they will be loyal to the gold that you’re paying them and only that gold. The downside, of course, is that hiring them won’t allow you to open discussion with a fellow duke who could be persuaded to support your just cause…

Finally, a third group seems to have emerged due to the war of succession over in England - the Band of Horsa. These men are Anglo-Saxon refugees who fled their home after it fell to Harald. I have not bothered to discern their reasoning, and it probably varies based on membership. Their leader is a Captain Gyrth, who men seem to agree is a virtuous man. They say that he is calm and forgiving. I’d take such rumors with a grain of salt - no man is a saint, and this man fled his home because it was conquered. I can’t imagine he’s forgiving enough to not harbor a grudge against Norway.

I suppose that’s something you can use, though.

Your faithful friend,
Count Renaud of Clermont’” - Excerpts From History

 

[HistoryDude]

“The letters that Count Herbert wrote were specifically tailored to their recipients. The count was a wise man, and he knew that writing generic letters would be unlikely to end well… or, at the very least, it wouldn’t ensure loyalty to anything other than money. If he appealed to them personally, however… he could earn their personal loyalty. Excerpted here are the letters that he wrote to appeal to the mercenary leaders.

‘To the great Captain Meginhard in Swabia,

I have heard tales of your great prowess in battle, and I wish to call upon the services of such a great commander in order to fight my just war against the Count of Valois. I am well aware that I should not withhold information, so I will explain the justice of my war.

Once, as I’m sure you know, my house ruled over both of our lands, stretching slightly beyond the western mountains that men call the Pyrenees east to the Elbe and as far south as Rome. Unfortunately, my house has fallen from those lofty heights, and now we only rule a single, small county. Usurpers seized all of our kingdoms, and I was reduced to inheriting almost nothing at all. Even so, all of the counts and dukes of West Francia swore allegiance to my dynasty, and the entire kingdom is mine by right. The Count of Valois has refused to kneel, and so I must force him to.

I am far from mighty now, but my dynasty was given their crown by the Almighty. We will gain back our great empire, and anyone who opposes us will be punished… perhaps even destroyed. On the other hand, those who aid us - aid me - will be greatly rewarded. You are a great fighter, and your aid would be useful. I would be glad to grant you land - either in France, or, if possible, even Germany (perhaps even your native Swabia) - should you aid me. All you need to do is agree to fight for me.

The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’

‘To the virtuous Captain Gyrth of the Anglo-Saxons,

Tales of your people have reached me, and I am interested in employing your services. I merely wish to reclaim land that was seized from my dynasty and people, as I’m sure you can understand. I will pay you well and even offer you a place to stay during the war… and perhaps after it. I do so hate to see men dispossessed.

Tales of your virtue have surely traveled across Europe, as have tales of how hard you work. I would certainly be willing to employ you in the long term and not have one measly war. Still, I would not prevent you from leaving if you have truly come to love your new life of wandering. If you have not, then we will discuss terms of long-term employment after we have defeated my enemies on the field of battle and reclaim my lost lands.

I am aware that men call you forgiving, but I am equally aware of how hard it is to forgive someone who has stolen your home and your livelihood from you. Are you so forgiving that you fail to hold a single grudge against King Harald Hardrada of Norway, who has truly heard the call of his Viking ancestors?

A concerned and desperate man,
Herbert of Vermandois’

‘To the righteous Count Herbert of Vermandois,

Some would argue that your ancestors were deposed because they became unworthy of ruling their land and lost the Almighty’s favor. On the other hand, your letter to me proves your wisdom, so you have surely regained it. I would be honored to participate in your war!

Of course, I would expect a suitable reward for my services. I do not care what form this reward takes - I would accept land, a bride, or even vast sums of money. I am not picky as long as I am rewarded and recognized for the great commander that I am. So many men of noble blood - especially kings - refuse to recognize that their inferiors also have their talents. I am glad to learn that you will be an exception.

All that remains now is to arrange a place to meet. I shall arrive with my army, and I imagine that Your Majesty will bring a great force! Together, we shall easily achieve victory!

A very interested man,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’

‘To the great Captain Meginhard,

I am glad that you have seen the wisdom of aiding me. We shall meet in my capital, St. Quentin, and we shall begin making arrangements then. I would like to thank you in advance for your service to my honorable house.

Even so, I am well aware of the nature of this world. Men are often loyal to many things, and their greed, their love, or even their ambition can sometimes overpower their reason. If such a thing were to happen to you, my honored captain, and you were to betray me, I would be left with no choice but to punish you as harshly as I can in order to set an example. Mercy has no place when dealing with treason.

I trust you and believe you are an honorable man. I am simply not so foolish as to allow something like trust to blind me to the ways of the world. Do not betray me, and I shall reward you beyond your wildest dreams. If you do betray me, though, I will make you see hell as a mercy - a release and a reduction in your sentence.

The rightful Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’

‘To the wise Count Herbert of Vermandois,

Message received. I shall meet with you, and I will be loyal to you. There is no reason for you to worry, although the fact that you do proves that you are not naive.

Your captain,
Captain Meginhard of Swabia’

‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,

I am not a proud man. There is no need to use flattery on me, as it is not necessary. I hold no lasting grudges against anyone. I will fight for you if you pay me, but the few years of mercenary work that I have done has proven something to me - there is no use in holding grudges. I will not allow you to sway me with promises of a revenge that I do not want.

By all accounts, my kin back in England remain safe and secure. King Harald is not cruel, and he knows better than to trigger a great rebellion among my people. I will not allow you to sway me with false promises of freedom for my kin.

From,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’

‘To Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa,

What if my promises to grant you land in England were not a lie? What if I was being honest in my promises? I am not an oathbreaker. What would you do then? Would you gain a loyalty to something beyond money then?

The armies are assembling at my capital, St. Quentin. If you truly wish to get paid - or to talk about other matters, then you will meet us there.

By the Grace of God, the Heir of Charlemagne,
Herbert of Vermandois’

‘To Count Herbert of Vermandois,

Not all men are as proud as you are. If you are serious, however, I would be willing to discuss things when I go to your capital.

And I am loyal to something beyond money. I am loyal to the Almighty and to his son, Jesus Christ, who died upon the cross for my sins. It is unchristian to hold a grudge.

A humble servant of our common Lord,
Captain Gyrth of the Band of Horsa’” - Excerpts from History

A/N: The potential plotlines got away from me, and this chapter is the result. There's a lot of potential paths that this chapter opens up...

 

[HistoryDude]

“The city of St. Quentin was filled with bustling activity, and this made Count Herbert of Vermandois glad, for it meant that his men were preparing for war. There were a million different conversations occurring across the camp, and this also made the Count glad, for it meant that his men were talking with each other - and hopefully forming bonds. These conversations were not the only noise that the count heard, though. He also heard other noises, such as the sounds of steel hitting steel and the sound of a bow being strung, and these also made him glad, for they meant that his men were practicing their skill at warfare.

In the midst of the active camp, Count Herbert walked into a single tent to meet with his commanders. Briefly, he had considered a different course of action - dueling some of his soldiers. He could feel the war in the air, and he could already taste his victory, after all.Even so, it never hurt to be careful, and a lack of care could mean a defeat, so he needed to ensure that the different commanders that now served him got along, or his army would divide and fight amongst themselves. That would mean certain death. No army, divided against itself, ever achieved victory.

Inside the command tent, there were three men. The first two were strange to Count Herbert - they were the mercenary captains that he hired, Captain Meginhard and Captain Gyrth. The rumors about these two men could not have been more different, but both were famed for their battle prowess. Even so, they were the main reason why Count Herbert was here in person - he worried that their differing personalities would give them reason to fight one another, and that would doom his cause.

Besides the two men Count Herbert was worried about, there was a third man. He was named Evrard, and the count had placed him in charge of his own forces. He was renowned in their small county for his strategies, but Count Herbert had also heard rumors about… less savory things. He had heard rumors that, for all of his strategies, this knight couldn’t actually fight in a real battle.

He had seen some evidence of that for himself, too, but it didn’t worry him too much. For one thing, his only evidence was practice duels, and the commander had won many of those when he had bothered to show up, even if he had also frequently winced at the mere sight of a blade.

Naturally, Count Herbert’s fears were quickly proven correct as soon as he entered that command tent. Both of his mercenary captains were engaged in a rigorous debate over what to do with your enemies after a war’s conclusion. At the moment, Count Herbert thought that the discussion sounded quite civilized and peaceful, but he also knew that the two men felt quite strongly about that issue. Their discussion was unlikely to remain so calm.

His entrance to the room caused a brief pause, but his silence was taken for assent, and the discussion continued. Count Herbert did nothing to stop it, and he even listened in. After all, he would need to decide what to do with prisoners when he won his victory over Count Raoul of Valois and Amiens, assuming everything went well.” - The Valois War

 

[HistoryDude]

“Unfortunately, both of his mercenary captains were aware that he was listening into their discussion, and it made them more snappy with one another. Captain Meginhard began insulting Captain Gyrth’s reconciliatory plan, calling him a coward for making it. Captain Gyrth refused to rise to the bait, continuing to argue in a reasonable manner.

Indeed, his response to his temporary ally’s direct attack was simple. ‘I seem to remember that we were having a reasonable discussion. Can we please keep things civil? Anyway, returning the prisoners immediately would help ensure that the war does not cause a permanent rift in relations between the warring parties, which, in turn, ensures that an endless cycle of warfare does not begin.’

Captain Meginhard smirked. ‘Yes, but any good leader would cripple his enemy beyond any capacity for resistance, you fool. There would be no threat of this so-called endless cycle of warfare if the dispossessed party has been stripped of all power. Letting an enemy remain in any position of power, much less a powerful enough position to have an army, is far too much mercy. Killing the prisoners immediately would help ensure that no one emerges on a quest for revenge against you. I would have expected you to know that, given your experiences.’

Captain Gyrth stiffened. ‘You know nothing of what I have gone through. Do not even pretend to understand my pain. Even so, your own declaration betrays your plan’s folly. Sometimes, the grieved party is too powerful to defeat in a single war, and an attacker cannot seize their land and their army from them. Would not angering them completely merely give away your plans? Even if you could seize all of their lands, someone is bound to survive. Someone always survives to enact revenge. Perhaps it now occurs to you why increasing their reasons to want revenge is not a good idea?’

Count Herbert blinked. He had not expected such a… spirited conversation. Still, he was glad that he got one, as it revealed many things about both of his new allies. Briefly, he wondered what events Captain Gyrth was referring to… and if he could use these to cement their alliance. He considered asking but soon thought better of the idea and settled for merely clearing his throat.

‘What an… enlightening conversation, my new allies,” he said. ‘However, I believe that we have far more pressing matters. Both of you speak as if this war is already won… but we still need to fight it. Are your men ready to move?’

Captain Meginhard smiled cruelly. ‘This war is already won. After all, I am your ally, am I not?’

Count Herbert raised an eyebrow. ‘Does that mean your men are ready to march now?’

‘Of course,’ Captain Meginhard said. ‘They are ready to march at any time. You could force them to march through a river during a rainstorm at night and arrive at their destination before the sun shows her face, and they would still grant you victory. I do not fear the elements or time, and I have trained my men to ignore both of those things.’

Captain Gyrth, for his part, was looking outside the tent’s doors. ‘Even if my colleague’s soldiers were as well trained as he claimed…’ - and Count Herbert could hear the doubt in his voice about that claim as though it were a tangible thing - ‘my soldiers cannot do any such thing, and I highly doubt that our host’s can. It might be best to rest until at least dawn and begin our march then. Starting a march tired could easily ensure that many of our forces die. Do you believe that such a decision would be wise, O Heir of Charlemagne?’

Count Herbert didn’t and said as much. Their meeting quickly adjourned, and the count soon fell asleep in his royal tent.” - The Valois War

 

[HistoryDude]

“Mercifully, Count Herbert didn’t dream and awoke prepared to march - and prepared for a battle. He looked up - the sun was out, but it wasn’t that high in the sky. It was still morning, which should mean that the march could be quick.

Count Herbert left his tent. Thankfully, most of his men seemed to be awake and ready to fight, as the camp appeared to be very busy. Count Herbert moved towards the command tent, where he saw that he was almost the last one there. Both of his hired commanders were waiting for him, although Evrard was absent.

Count Herbert wasted no time. ‘When do we begin our march?’

Captain Meginhard raised an eyebrow. ‘I believe I made the fact that I was ready to leave last night quite clear. I am ready to march whenever.’

Captain Gyrth rolled his eyes at his fellow commander. Normally, Count Herbert would disapprove of such disrespect, but, quite frankly, he was getting a bit tired of Meginhard’s extreme arrogance. ‘The rest of us need to sleep before battles - and I suspect that you do too, even if your pride won’t let you admit it.’ He turned his attention back to the count. ‘I am ready to leave with my men whenever - we just needed the rest. That being said… should we not wait for the man who will be commanding your soldiers to arrive before having this discussion?’
Count Herbert smiled. ‘No. I can get my men to follow me toward my enemy’s land, and Evrard will take a long time to arrive. I’m unwilling to wait. We march now.’

Both of his commanders agreed, and their march began. They marched into Valois, and the calm autumn alleviated the sun’s cruel heat. They marched into the county unopposed, and Count Herbert decided that sending scouts to look for enemy forces would be a wise move. These scouts didn’t initially see any opposition, so the march continued.

It didn’t take very long for the scouts to spot the enemy, though. The moon had still not risen when the scouts reported to Count Herbert that their foes were also on the move. Seemingly, their target was somewhere in the County of Vermandois itself, and Count Herbert quickly decided that he couldn’t allow them to exit their county.

Aware that he was not positioned at the army’s front, he quickly forced his way through his own men to reach the front and meet with his commanders. This took a while, but he still managed to get there before the sun journeyed under the world. He ordered them to lead the men towards the border of the two counties, hoping to intercept his enemy’s force.

After that, he snuck back behind the front lines, although his annoyance with how long it took to get in touch with his commanders encouraged him to stay a bit farther away from the back. His future convenience was worth more than the possibility of a quick retreat if things went south. The army quickly marched, following his orders, and the count smiled. It was nice to know that he could still command with such authority.

Soon, he could spot a nebulous mass in the distance, and he suspected that he had found his enemy. He drew his sword and braced himself for battle.

Chaos reigned when the two armies collided. It seemed as if his opponent had not expected to encounter his army, and, despite his warnings, his soldiers appeared unprepared as well. Mentally, he cursed Evrard for failing to properly prepare for a battle. He was a great strategist, but that upside was becoming increasingly unclear due to his laziness.

Count Herbert drew his sword and waited for the enemy to attack his position. Under the light of the moon, he waited to fight his first true battle - for his dynasty’s sake. Soon, a man finally attacked him, and the count’s worries about his dynasty, his glory, and his legacy all faded. All he could focus on was the fight.” - The Valois War




Author's Note: I was going to cover a bit more of the actual battle, but this is a good stopping point for now. Pray for our ambitious count's safety... or his death, if you happen to dislike him.